Tuesday, September 16, 2008

CHS air conditioning installation delay - May 08 proposal

This is a continuation of my posts on the CHS air conditioning installation and heating retrofit. These images are of a proposal from the consulting engineer to the town. They are dated May 23, 2008 and mention a study from Sept 2007.

I'm curious to know what happened between the date of the Council vote (March 27, 2008) and the day this letter was written - specifically, what happened on what day that led to this May 23 letter?

Unfortunately, I'm sure that's one of those questions that I'm not supposed to ask.




Comments?

Tim White

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

How did all this start? Was it to save energy and if it was, it seems that it has taken on a life of it's own.

From reading this proposal, it seems like it would be impossible to get a realistic idea of the final costs and what the savings, if any, would be.

I think we should take our time about this huge undertaking that does nothing to improve educational results. As a next step, we should seek proposals from performance contracting companies. At least with performance contracting companies, you know what to expect up front.

With the current proposal, it doesn't seem that they can give us a feirm cost on just their consulting costs. This could be another town project that just goes on and on with no end to the costs and finger pointing.

It just doesn't seem to be an urgent need, so let's for once take the time to know exactly what we are doing and do it right.

Anonymous said...

From what I read this engineer says alternative energy proposals are not worth it due to high initial costs and long term payback. His idea is to use the old way of doing heating in schools, boilers, unit ventilators with no concern for indoor air quality of energy savings. And for this piece of information we waive the bid process.

We have been duped again by the Town powers that be. There are energy alternatives, nobody wants to spend the time to look at them.

Anonymous said...

In paragraph 3 the engineer states basically any alternative energy effort is too expensive. It is not his job to make that determination, it is his job to do the study and allow the client, in this case the BOE to decide if it is too expensive.

What is it too expensive for Cheshire when many other school districts have done alternative energy?

Anonymous said...

Why oil? We all know where the price of oil is going, maybe someone should tell Salamone. Of course, oil would be very, very good for one of our local contractors, especially now that they have school experience.

My feeling is that if Cheshire had a Sara Palin as a Council Chairman or Town Manager, we would not be a bit concerned how many times we got things wrong. Sara, with a little work, was able to get $27,000,000 in federal earmarks, or $5,400 for each of the 5,000 men, women, and children. If could only be as fortune as Wasilla, we could get $156,000,000 for our 29,000 people. So, Murphy, Dodd and Lieberman get busy, up to now you have done basically zilch for Cheshire. Let's get representives that know Santa and can deliver.

tim white said...

Let's get representives that know Santa and can deliver.

Cheshire does have one representative with white hair... and while I've never heard anyone call him Santa... he does deliver.

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should get rid of Salamone and use some different consulting engineers.

It is pretty clear who will get this job when all is said and done.

The whole process stinks!

tim white said...

Consultants do as they are directed. PBC does as it is directed.

IMO, the Council needs to be given direction... but not this kind.

Anonymous said...

The engineers have a point concerning the expense of alternative energy sources. Many if not all those listed usually begin to look good financially only with the inclusion of state and local tax dollar grants for the owners.

The real issue for the high school and for the town tax payers is the insanity of heating such a facility with electricity in 2008. We must be crazy to allow this to continue. Gas would be a great alternative for the high school but all the stories associated with the town pool seem to indicate that additional natural gas isn’t readily available in that section of town due to the mind blowing - - significant - - consumption by the town pool and the gas mains that are inadequately sized for future town growth located under that portion of RT 10.

Anonymous said...

Gas is a solid alternative for the high school heating retrofit. Yes, there is disconnect on is there is enough gas supply for the high school and run the pool. In an engineered proposal 3 years ago the idea was to install 3 micro-turbines at the high school and there was sufficient gas supply at that time. There is not sufficient gas supply to run any fuel cells. At minimum to guarantee a gas supply for the high school the pool could be run on propane to fuel a micro-turbine.

Anonymous said...

It’s so amazing listening to all the proposals, plans and meetings which the town engages in when it comes to energy wasting by the town. Ah, the 3 year old proposal for micro-turbines can be cited along with the proposed fuel cells for pool heat and electricity and, on and on.

There seems to be lots of disconnects associated with anything about energy use by this town. Our town pool is as big of an energy HOG, spelled many wasted dollars, as the electric heat system at the high school is. It’s made even worse by a gas main which probably hasn’t had its capacity increased while the town has seen its population double several times since the early 1950’s.

Propane to heat the pool in winter with its current thin plastic bubble would no doubt require many truck loads of the stuff weekly on an already totally congested local road.

At least one council member has been working to hold the town’s feet to the fire on energy issues. Here’s hoping tw can actually get us past the meeting babble report writing musical heating systems game which has played out for too long while our hard earned money literally goes up a chimney or out a pool bubble enclosure into thin air.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion the real problem lies with the Town Manger's office and the Town Council when it comes to energy savings. It is yet to become an serious issue. The Town jumped on the fuel cell bandwagon a few years ago offered up by UTC. The salesman lives in Cheshire and with any small amount of due diligence you would have known there was an insufficient supply of gas to run the 5 or 6 fuel cells UTC wanted to put in. The only reason UTC was willing to make the offer was they thought the project would be funded by the Connecticut Clean Energy Fund. SO the cost of putting in the fuel cells would be paid by the taxpayers of Connecticut and UTC would make a profit on the selling of thermal energy and electricity to the Town and back into the power grid. The biggest problem was the Town Manger and everyone else that had input and a vote for this fell in line with the idea because all they heard was the fuel cells were free of charge.

Changing the mechanical heating system even with the bubble, adding in a recycle air flow to reduce outside makeup air from 100% to 80% would save a huge amount of money. Nobody wants to listen as there is no surefire political gain to be made. When one of the political parties can determine what the public will bear in cost to fix the pool then the ideas and proposals will come forth. The Town Council and Town Manager are not looking out for our best interest of the residents, they are looking out for themselves and determining what decisions will create the greatest amount of votes for re-election.

Anonymous said...

They are blowing so much hot air that it can keep the bubble up. Start making some decisions that will save us some money. The longer you wait the more it will cost...

Anonymous said...

Tim White said.. "the PBC does as it is directed". Please tell us whom in your opinion is directing the PBC.

Is the Council is directing the PBC? If so, they should have implicit knowledge of all these goings-on, instead of blogging about it like fools and complaining. If not, the Council should wrest control and do what we elected them to do. The PBC doesn't run our town, but by controlling these projects I'm starting to think we have to ELECT PBC MEMBERS TO HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PUBLIC.

tim white said...

With comments such as this... when it comes to directing the PBC, the Council has clearly demonstrated its desire to rubber stamp and its general incompetence.

As I've said before, there must be a change in the membership of the Council if wrongs are to be righted.

Anonymous said...

The laws of the town do not allow PBC to do what is required of them. The PBC, as I see it, can only do what the Council tells them to do. Either give the PBC approval to act and direct, or disband.

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