Residents' thoughts on ND
By special request of Al Sanders and with the permission of Alan Bisbort, here's their thoughts on the proposed zone text changes in the north end. First, Al Sanders:
The discussion about the proposed shopping center seems to be dominated by the side that supports it. However, there are compelling reasons to question the rationale of building a 500,000 square foot shopping mall, as well as 160 residential units on this land. Perhaps it is time that we pay some attention to the arguments of the other side. The bottom line to this is: once a shopping mall is built, it is built forever. You can't un-build a shopping center. Since a decision of this magnitude can affect how the 400 interchange acres are developed, it is incumbent on the town to examine the issue from all sides, good and bad. A real impact study, prior to changing the zoning, would make the residents more confortable with the process. Right now there are many residents in town who are not comfortable with the speed and manner in which this proposal has moved ahead. The letter to the Meriden Record Journal is an example of some concerns about the process and what can happen to their town.And here's a letter from Alan Bisbort:
As for me, I'm comfortable that Planning & Zoning will make a decision that is in the best interest of Cheshire. I do have to say though that my current understanding of the residential doesn't leave me feeling as though it will do much of anything to address CTs brain drain... at least not with the 18-28 yr old group. I really wish there was something done by someone to stop the brain drain.
Finally, I believe the first PZC meeting (not public hearing) on the proposal is scheduled for Monday night (5/21) at the Town Hall. Can anyone confirm that and provide a time?
47 comments:
I was told by a P&Z member that the meeting is the 21st.
As far as the residential goes, if anyone feels that we have a need for this type of housing, let them build on land that is already zoned residential. To put residential on land that is currently zoned industrial is foolish at best.
Tim, I understand your feelings regarding the brain drain in CT. You have to realize that there are many reasons why this residential proposal in Cheshire will not address the issue. 1. Young unmarried people 18-25 are not going to settle in Cheshire vs. Hartford, Boston, New York because of the night life these areas offer. Cheshire is too quiet a town for these individuals. 2. Jobs & opportunities not available in CT. 3. Many married young people in this group are leaving CT because they can get alot more bang for their buck in other states (such as SC, NC, CO & GA). Housing is cheaper and taxes are less. So until these issues are addressed Cheshire and CT as a whole will continue to have this drain.
Great News! According to a report by The Greater Waterbury Real Estate Report: "THE TOWNS OF OXFORD AND CHESHIRE WILL DOMINATE THE REGIONS MARKET FOR NEW INDUSTRIAL CONSTRUCTION DURING THE NEXT TWO YEARS". We are a booming distribution hub, why is this never mentioned? Look at the recent Whole Foods and Napoli Foods in addition to our old friends Bozzuto's and numerous bedding wholesalers. No activity in the northend is BS. If this change is made it will deter others and not attract. Why the heck do we want to change this zone? P&Z should leave it alone.
Bisbort is a peacenik socialist who gets impure thoughts whenever he hears the word impeachment.
That said, residential development on commercial or industrial zoned land is a guaranteed loss leader.
Forget the transient 18-25 crowd. We ought to be aiming for a older and more stable demographic. And here's another thought. If a shopping mall is built, it means that a potentially less desirable land use can;t be built on the site
I share some of Mr. Alan Bisbort's concerns about the so-called malling of Cheshire but its unfortunate that even in his hue and cry for reason and his assertions that no elected official even questioned the proposal is a misstatement of fact...a falsehood...dishonest.
It is a joy to hear he lost $120 pay that one night. Wouldn't his sincere concern be worth $240, $480? How Alan hates capitalism yet suffers the same gripes about money. Alan is a former everything. He gave up on the environment commission, he gave up on the public hearings and he gave up on the truth.
Sorry Alan. I can share some of your concerns about Cheshire. I agree with you that this plan should be turned down but its just your wretched whining and hollow threats I can't abide.
You never surprise and you seldom inspire.
Fact: 3 councilman, 2 EDC and 1 CCC members are the only Town officials to oppose this. By shooting the messenger the issue still remains. Different political views are fine and one can express and say what they want. I believe Mr. Bisbort is trying to awaken the citizens. Many don't know what and how this change would impact them. Why has no town official ever publicly explained in simple written terms what this change will truly mean? We detail our budget to no end and have many meetings. This will impact the Town for more than one year yet no details. Why? One can see from all the questions and articles that people are still confused. Let's take our time but proper and legal answers to the questions raised at the public hearings should be made public soon. Without these answers we are all shooting in the dark and no changes should be granted....
All the shopaholics can't see beyond their noses. Where are apartment complexes three stories high going to enhance Cheshire. Let's stop and really think about what this will do to our town. Once this is done the residents of Cheshire who have been in a coma will wake up and scream like hell unfortunately it will be to late.
5:51 I agree with you that the Brain Drain has multiple reasons, one of which is housing.
I wish the powers-that-be in Hartford would acknowledge it and act. Although... it looks like their calls for "energy reform" may not even go anywhere... despite repeated claims that action is impending.
The brain drain and virtually everything else that is impacting our population "no growth" here in Connecticut and in the northeast in general is all about taxes and the cost of living...and we don't have kids being born at a rate to sustain us either...too expensive I guess.
The cost of leaving is simply easier to deal with. Until elected officials reign in the spending, say NO to every needless whim then none of this will stop. Forget about Hartford, they're all deaf or don't care. Start in your towns, Cheshire, Prospect, Wallingford, etc. We are pricing the entire population into instability and a shopping center here or there isn't an answer to any of this.
10:22 PM
Alan could have stated those facts...he had them...he's an investigative reporter. He wants one to think he is the only person with any sense. I am certain when he discovered that he and Schrumm agreed on the malling of Cheshire he must have died a thousand deaths...hence his no mention of those elected officials that don't approve of the WS project.
The report by the Greater Waterbury Real Estate group is quite interesting. It is designed to be given to key real estate and financial people in the area. This report should be made known to the P&Z. Why is Oxford and Cheshire so tantalizing for industrial & commercial development? If this report has value then the planned zone text change will hurt the potential for industrial/commercial development for the future.
The IC zone could be filled by the end of the year if warehousing operations were zoned and/or desired there. The truth of the matter is Cheshire has several such operations in the adjoining industrial zones and will no doubt attract more due to the towns central location and access to a strategic link via I-691 to I-84 & I-91.
Some of the towns current operations include long established Macy's by Mail, Roadway tranship facility, Bozuttos, and newcomers Whole Foods and Napoli Foods-under construction. There are probably others in the mix also. And don't overlook the fact that our towns substantial greenhouse operations benefit from this highway arrangement.
This resource should remain unfettered by a massive retail and housing componant that simply won't comingle with the town's other existing and evolving commercial/industrial tenants.
P&Z must look at everything before making a decision. Time should not matter. This has a long term affect on Cheshire. Please investigate before you decide for all the current and future residents of Cheshire sake.
Report Says Oxford, Cheshire Will Dominate New Industrial Construction
By: Leda Quirke 05/16/2007
OXFORD - The towns of Oxford and Cheshire will dominate the region's market for new industrial construction during the next two years, according to a report released last month by Drubner Industrials Commercial and Industrial Real Estate Brokers.
For the full story: Copy the following link that you see in 4 as a single block and then paste it into the your address bar.
http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18342195&BRD=1380&PAG=461&dept_id=157533&rfi=8
That link was a dead end for me. I googled drubner and found a report dated 2000 - 2001 by them citing the Cheshire & Oxford locations for their growth potential. Their website did not reveal a more updated report. Was the reporter referring to that old report? While it may be relevant it today doesn't have the cache of a recent prognosis.
The link worked fine for me. I blocked the following two lines
http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18342195&BRD=1380&PAG=461&dept_id=157533
pasted them in the address bar.
I got voicesnews.com screen and then a long wait and the article appeared. It is all current news.
We have a "gem" of a town as one young resident mentioned at a past P&Z meeting. I have read more letters opposing this change with good reasons for not changing. The few letters for the change only state shopping as a good reason. This to me is a want and not a wise choice. The zoning should remain unchanged.
This is taken directly from Cheshire's Webb site, "About Cheshiret".
Cheshire is a family-oriented community that supports an excellent school system. Historic homes blend with newer tree-lined neighborhoods. Local retailers provide a variety of goods and services, with commercial and industrial businesses unobtrusively rounding out the composition of the community.
Why change a good thing?
If it's changed, then something like this might apply, "Cheshire's magic mile of national branded stores and fast food restaurants are easy to find".
Tim 12:24 The problem with our representatives in Hartford is that they repeatedly state that action is required whether it is housing, taxes, energy reform or brain drain. The only thing is they sit on their hands and only open their mouths while CT pays the price.
The "Brain Drain" is because the younger people can see the insanity of what we have created and what we are about to create. They have decided the best thing to do is leave for places with better quality of life for lower costs.
anon: 4:51 I agree with your new description but I would like to add "Cheshire Magic Mile is easy to find but hard to reach".
So we develop land that is in Southington and it will destroy Cheshrie? They have built or are building many big box stores right on the Cheshire line in both Waterbury and Southington so don't we already have the traffic problems with no additional tax revenue? Not sure what your plan is but it won't stop the them from getting as close as they can without one dime of additional revenue.
I am sure that the zone text change will be voted down. It appears that their are not five votes to support it. What a great victory for the people of Cheshire. I hope that WS leaves us alone.
"without one dime of additional revenue"
Revenue is meanless when the town's expenses exceed it. The only ones that will profit from this are Paul Bowman, Doug Calcagni, W/S, and the Cacagni realty agents that testified that this is what Cheshire needs.
It doesn't take many people to ruin a town.
Big boxes stores all the way down route 10.
Cheshire a place to shop, but who would want to live there.
I hope not you, time for you to go!
You are so far off base, so full of fear, so full of hate, you must be the one who attacked the P&Z member.
Connecticut."Since the 1990, the Census Bureau tells , we've had a 30% decline in our population of 25 to 34 year-olds, the most precipitious decline in the country. We're losing 15,00 people a year, most of them young workers. A net total of 100,000 25-to-44-year-olds will depart by 2030, predictions suggest". This was stated by Rick Green in The Hartford Courant on 5/22/07. No workers no companies and no shopping. I believe if we leave the IC zone as is we will create more jobs which will attract more workers and the housing will follow. Jobs are the key and not retail. Cheshire should lead and not follow trends, such as a "Life Style Center". Think hard about this P&Z you are making a monumental decision for all the citizens of Cheshire.
If you build it they will come...
This project will add $1.5 million in additional revenue. No one has presented any facts that prove that it will cost the town in additional services and they applicant will have to produce an economic inpact study as part of the application process.
"This project will add $1.5 million in additional"
Baloney. Who are you to post so much bull. Nobody knows what the stores are or the value of the rental units. And, nobody knows how much all the services and infrastructure costs will be. Stop putting crap out and if you do post your name if your such any authority.
Anon 10:02 If you believe this I have another shopping center to sell you. There are no facts because there is no proposal. This whole thing is about changing the text so that the whole 400 acres can be used for whatever. Please check it out. They are using smoke and mirrors. They can show you whatever they want and say whatever they want. It's all BS. The only thing you can compare is CANTON and they have no residential. They had many problems check ther web site.
All you people spread is fear and lies. That is all you have. It is not a positive way to conduct policy. It is the same logic that the Bush used to start the war. He presented facts that were outright lies or wrong, and he knew it, and people believed him. You offer not facts, you just make up lies, you attack P&Z members and most post about residential are racist. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You may stop the project, you may not, but lost any respect that you have.
What lies? This text change does affect the 400 acres and the developer hasn't presented anything concrete. He started out with condos now he says 3 story apartment buildings. He just wants the zone change and then he'll let us know after what he intends to do. That's like you hiring a contractor to build your house on the condition he'll tell you what kind he's going to build later. I don't think thats the way you would do business and I don't think the town should either. As far as residential statements being racist - I haven't seen any. The only comments in regard to residential have been - we do not want residential on land zoned commercial and we have concerns regarding overcrowding our schools and raising taxes as a result. Those are not racist so get your facts straight.
When it is complete I hope you drive by it every day and you get stuck in traffic!
There is only one reason for you to post such absurd comments. You have to be afraid this is getting away from you and you may not get what you want. Just like a spoiled child who whines when he doesn't get his way.
Who is the spolied child? You people have resorted to attacking public officals? Who feels it slipping away?
I have read all 36 postings on "Residents thoughts on ND" and I can't find one that attacks a public official. What are you talking about?
What's going on with the $530,000 bill for the by-pass? NO progress report or anything. It must be finished by now. Was it ever signed?
State Taxpayers to Pay Millions
They are already talking about having the DOT re-engineer the 691 entrance and exit ramps. I'll bet W/S has a complete plan for it. Is it a cloverleaf? Will the state have to buy property from W/S to build it.
This alone can cost far more than W/S will pay for the property.
Stop it now.
A physical attack on Woody Dawson, ask him!
That it true, one of The Magnificent Seven (Bisbort, DeVylder, Kleist, Korten, Kunde, Nero, and Schrumm) did go after Woody Dawson.
A physical attack? Was he knocked out? You really should watch what you imply. Also it is unfair to mention names of many individuals when most if not all don't have a clue what your talking about. That is slander.
He hit him in the chest with his finger repeatally. No one gave a name so how is it slander? Oh well, go put up some signs.
If you want to know who was the individual who physically confronted Woody Dawson, go to the One Stop convenience store (across the street from Staples) and ask any of the “regulars”.
It is vile what some of the anti North End supporters have been saying about people in this community. In addition, one council member has said many times that he will do anything to stop this project…makes you real proud to call Cheshire your home.
In my opinion Dave Schrumm just has WAY TOO MUCH time on his hands since Aetna gave him his walking papers. He is a bitter person and it comes through at every meeting.
Times they are a changing Dave.
4:25PM You said no one gave a name to the person who attacked Woody Dawson. If that is the case why are you mentioning names? That is slander. If you don't have all the facts keep your mouth shut!
"In my opinion Dave Schrumm"
Your opinion is worthless, you're
just a mean spirited person who is has done nothing positive.
You're most likely one of the "PAVE CHESHIRE OVER" and you're probably against Schrumm because he doesn't want Cheshire ruined by the Paul Bowman, Doug Calcagni, and W/S developers.
Hooray for Schrumm.
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