PZC meetings start
Here is the Herald's take on Monday's PZC meeting (by Shannon Becker) on the proposed ND... or more precisely, the proposals for a zone text change and a plan of conservation & development change.
Based on the article, I may have been at the meeting for only a few minutes, but caught the most salient points in a previous post... the comments made by Commissioners about their sense of the proposal... that being the comments by Tim Slocum and Paul Ranando.
Adding one more point though from the Herald's article... I disagree with one commissioners comments:
Martin Cobern said there should be only one question in the minds of the commissioners when they consider whether or not to allow mixed use in the Interchange Zone. “Is it an improvement to the life in Cheshire?” he asked, adding that if it’s not, then they should vote against it.My feeling is that all nine members were elected to use their best judgment. And they (both Democratic and Republican) don't need to be told "the question." And if I'm offbase here, then I'd say that, at minimum, such comments should either come from the Chairwoman, Patti Flynn Harris, or the paid professional staff. In other words, he may even be right... but his comments were unnecessary.
Finally, some have made comments here about the lack of these meetings being televised. For what it's worth, I believe that back in Nov. 2005... the new Chairwoman of the PZC, Patti Flynn Harris, made a decision. She decided to televise public hearings, but not meetings. I know that may seem like semantics, but there is a difference. And if that's true, then there's no inconsistency in the lack of these meetings being televised... it just happens to be a rule that was established before WS' proposal came to be. Can anyone confirm this? By the way, if anyone wants to videotape the meetings and post them on the web, I'd definitely link to them.
Tim White
48 comments:
Get with it old timer
The cows will be fine
The chickens will be fine
The pigs will be fine
Even they want WS and all it means
GERTTTTT-coming soon to a town near you
WS and the boys give you sommmtin niceeee
Big and better stores
REst.
Gonna happens train rolls down the traqcks
There once was an old timer named Clem
whose words against the north end was just flem
He cried like a baby
Too much residential maybe
and all he did was get run over by the WS machine which is really kicking your butt right now and I tear down all the signs and I am going to be there when the ribbon gets cut
All planning and zoning meetings should be televised, especially the ones dealing with the plan of development and zone text changes.
It is important for the public to know how the P&Z arrives at a decision that can alter Cheshire's character forever. After 3 days, the minutes of the 3/22 meeting are not on the Webb site, and who knows if they include everything that was said. With television, the public does not miss a word.
8:20 AM
With regard to the ribbon cutting ceromony should I look for the guy in the Anus & Andy costume or will you be in the Jackass suit?
But you will be there?
W/S is not a machine as it is always referred to here on some posts. They are a company who has a proposal before the town of Cheshire to change the zone text. No one on the P&Z board has mentioned looking into their financial backround. Do they have the money? If we don't have the right to ask then anyone could walk into P&Z office and ask for a zone text change with an option on a piece of property like W/S. Would I be right or wrong? They will form a LLC or a separate company and then what? That entity could tell Cheshire to pound sand if anything doesn't go their way. We need more than just what W/S has said about themselves. Take into account the Carpenters union presidents comments. They were not very flattering to W/S. They never go against new construction. W/S also put pressure on the town of Canton to give them a larger store size than what was originally proposed. Let's be cautious.
Where is our town attornys legal opinion on this? We get one for every other little thing. This is major. Should we get two opinions? If someone tells us we don't need one just yet we should be furious.
I am going to go out tonight and tear down all the anti signs and bring them to the next PZ meeting and light them on fire
Calling all old timers
We are having a ho down at the barn
Bring your moonshine
Bring your chickens and cows
WS gonna bring the champagne
Gonna get ya all day
Its gonna take place
You can count on it
I tore down 50 flyers the other day
My parents helped me do it
They say that WS is good for the town
I agree with all who say it is good
All my high school friend s want it for sure
We have formed a group at Cheshire HS called Cheshire students for the north end we have a great website that is in development
Will post it as soon as it is ready
Lets get with there old buzzards
Ws and the boys are ready to cook you up a can of shopping sauce
No more rolling up the streets at 6 Pm
Good stuff gonna getcha
Honk HOnk
WS gonna roll over ya
8 out of 11 comments by the same person. These should be deleted. This blog is clogged. It's sad because it has some value but it must be policed.
Why wasn't the town attorney at the 5/21 meeting? Maybe we need an attorney who lives in town.
A meeting of realtors:
Evidently someone called a meeting of realtors before the 5/7 P&Z meeting.
Does anyone have details of who called it and what did they discuss? As most people know, there was a large turnout of realtors at the 5/7 meeting and the press reported a large turnout for the W/S mall, what a surprise.
Hey all you anti WS people wake up!!
WS gonna get ya somethin real nice
The chickens and the pigs and the cows and the dogs and the cats want it
Council wants it
Citizens want it
I tore down 50 signs yesterday
I am laughing at you
GEt oiut thye way
WS steamroller commin at YA
Our poet should go back to the farm all he talks about is dog,cats,chickens,cows and pigs. He also says all these animals "want it". Since he talks to these animals he is delusional as well as brainless. Maybe he should also talk to the box turtles.
Checked with the box turtles and they said they like it but not the residential bc they already have houses
Get with it old timer
Its gonna happen
Some thing real niccccce
Bong-right by ya
gong so long sucker
Ping wow waht was that
wS getting by ya
What's with Estey? Her letter to the Cheshire Herald is nothing more than a political attack against Steve Carrol. She states that his informative letter of the previous week was significantly inaccurate, yet her letter reiterates many of the same issues that Steve's letter included. Elizabeth, what are the inaccuracies? If your going on the attack, itemize each inaccuracy and state why it is inaccurate.
Besides the political attack, what is your real purpose? Did you try to minimize the sewage treatment capacity problems so that it is not an issue for the W/S development that you enthusiastically support?
Let's start thinking of how 400 acres of malls, more than W/S, and hundreds of apartments will effect the infrastructure and character of Cheshire.
We have some serious issues to deal with as far as WPCA goes, yet who was the council liaison to WPCA when he was on the council-yep you got it-Carroll-did he say word one about the issue-No-so that tells you how he felt about it then-by the way Schrumm wrote that ed and Steve just put his name to it-that everyone knows bc Steve is not his own man
I'm virtually certain that Dave Schrumm (not Steve Carroll) preceded Elizabeth Esty as the Council liaison to the WPCA.
Ok Tim you are right but they are one in the same as far as neither one said one word bc both want to stop any development in town
Carrol pointed out some problems and made suggestions on how to fix them? What's the problem? Neither Schrumm of Carrol run the WPA. What's wrong with you? Just because Schrumm is against a bad proposal does not mean he is against development. There is a difference between Good Growth and the W/S, Bowman Calcagni Dumb Growth. Remember the pool.
Schrumm supported the pool it happend on his watch.
Today's Questions
How many malls can you put on 400 acres of the ND?
How many apartments?
Should NE fire station be built before the malls.
When will Cheshire go to a paid fire dept?
Carrol did not write that letter, Schrumm did. For years his plan has been to control development in town by keeping capacity at the plant low. He should have been yelling that there was a problem. Six months before we limited hook-ups Schrumm reported that all was fine at the plant? This is a joke and a ture lack of leadership on both Carrol and Schrumm's part.
When does Steve wake up and realize that David has done him no favors in his council career?
"Carrol did not write that letter, Schrumm did. For years his plan has been to control development "
What are you smoking? Get real. You know who really writes the letters? You need help.
Neither Schrumm of Carrol run the plant. The Town Engineer is responsible for the Waste Water Plant,Joseph Michelangelo, and he reports to the Town Manager, Michael Milone. Do you want to accuse the Town Manager of not doing his job?
Why don't you take up your concerns with them. That's what they get the big bucks for.
Anon 9:39 The only comment that makes sense. This town is great at shooting the messenger. There is a state facility in our town which sucks the life out of many of our services and we don't receive enough money back to recovery our costs "PILOT". Water is a big problem. How many guests do they have and do they practice water conservation? I think not. What do they care they don't pay the bills.
It's May 29 and where are the minutes of the 5/21 P&Z meeting posted? What's the delay? Are they being sanitized?
For such important meetings, that can change Cheshire's future forever it is unacceptable to not have TV coverage and the delay of the minutes is unbelievable.
The Cheshire Herald Editor launched a vicious attack against Cheshire citizens calling them Anti-Everything. This person has lost their marbles and shows what a sorry state the Cheshire Herald is in. If anyone who doesn’t agree with this person’s view, is attacked.
People who voiced concern about going to war in Iraq were attacked by the news media and look how well that turned out. If anyone is negative, it is this person. Why is it a crime to question if the Cheshire residents will really benefit from the W/S mall and 160 rental units. The Herald has been for this from day one and has gone out of their way to misinform us. They don’t want a debate, they want to stifle it and name call anyone who wants honest information.Why do they do this? The mall and housing will be great for Paul Bowman and Doug Calcagni , the Herald’s advertising and the author who doesn’t have the guts to post their name. It’s the money plain and simple.
When have you ever seen a name on an editorial in any paper? You don't know the difference between a news story and an editorial.
I didn't read anything in that editorial about the newspaper supporting the proposed shopping mall...it was calling for people to LISTEN OPEN MINDED to the plan then decide.Don't just oppose it because it's a different idea.
Who says they don't want debate. ....you can write a letter to the editor pro or con against the development.
I think you are jumping the gun on saying they are for the plan. It's way to early for this. I think they along with the citizens need to hear more.
It's easy to kill the messenger.For years I for one have read all the different views in the letters to the editor page and am happy that it is there each week.
Look at the ads in the paper, small local businesses, not Westfield or Brass Mills or even Stop and Shop or the national pharmacies. Be realistic before claiming its always about money.
Why are people always so cynical?
I personally don't want to see housing, but I am still undecided one way or the other for the shopping center. I will LISTEN to all views.
8:38
While you and the Herald are still making up your mind this train has left the station. This mess is well beyond public input. PZC will be making a decision on June 11 or June 25. This won't be televised but the public may listen to the commissioners as they sort through the testomony and essentially make a gut decision.
All the Herald is doing is trying to set up the public for the decision it expects...a strip mall with clock towers, 500 parking spaces and 150 two bedroom rental units tucked in the back. This is what the paid professionals want in town hall and a great number of elected officials from both parties.
Many times a bad decision is celebrated as a victory only to present itself for what it was after it is too late. The pool is a local example and a puny one at that. How many people in town think that is an albatross?
Wait till they see the impact of a paid fire department, an expanded cloverleaf at the northend to accomodate not one but atleast two of these "quaint" lifestyle centers for the legions of shoppers that will create havic for renters that had no idea they would be so inconvenienced by all that highway noise and traffic.
To be sure the Herald will chalk it up to progress and offer their version of Dr Phil to all the same complainers.
Mark my anonymously placed words. No one is going to be really thrilled with this.
And another thing I left off my previous post.
Almost all of the elected officials that said it will be great will have left town for a quieter life or they will vigorously disclaim ownership of their initial support for the the "projects at the northend"
9:02 said: Many times a bad decision is celebrated as a victory only to present itself for what it was after it is too late.
GWB said:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
to 9:02
So, what do we do, what choices do we as citizens have? We elected these officials, and they are going to make the decision for us whether we like it or not. What can people do?
Unfortunately isn't this the way most things happen in any town. The public should be allowed to vote their choice on big projects such as this. How else will the officials know what the majority of the people want.
This may sound naieve, but really what can we do as citizens?
In fairness to the Herald, they were always aginst the plans for the pool, and had many editorials condeming the whole building of the project and the cost overruns. They never sugarcoated that issue.
"This may sound naive, but really what can we do as citizens? "
There is a lot you can do.
Call your council person, write letters to all the council people, to the Economic Development Commission members, Planning and Zoning Milone and the editors of the newpapers.
Be vocal and show you are against using this property for anything other than its current zoning.
Put signs on your lawn, on your trees, on the back window of your car and even on your house. Tell the developers, We're Not Going To Take It Anymore.
And it's time for local retailers and restaurants to either fight this or be part of history.
Where are all the environmentalists? This 109 acres surrounding the 10 Mile River is one of the most beautiful pieces of property in Cheshire. Go see it. Go see what they want to pave over.
Where are all the parents of school children who have a good chance of seeing a real impact on their children's education and the negative affect the malls have on behavior?
It's time for Cheshire to wake up and think for itself and to preserve our quality of life.
P&Z stop and think. The Cheshire Herald says there is a W/S plan. You said that an impact study can't be done until there is a plan, now there is no excuse.
It's all about money.
Can we go on the property to see it, I thought it was private? Is it possible to go on it? How come we never knew how beautiful this was until all this shopping center came about?
So you are saying let our feelings be known to the Planning and Zoning members?
Do you think they will really care what Joe and Jane Doe think?
Why shouldn't the public see it? Paul Bowman and Doug Calcagni own the property right now. Calcagni is always showing properties and the fact that they got over $500,000 from our state and federal govt's, why would they refuse us access, especially since it is going to be paved over.
Its private property. PRIVATE is the key word. You didn't buy it, you don't own it, you don't trespass on it. Arrests have already been made for people that have been caught on the property. Would you welcome anyone and everyone who feels the need to come assess your yard and home (YOUR PROPERTY) whenever they want without your consent?
They would most likely refuse you access because they still own it. It is not a public or commercial area. It is private property and they have the right to refuse anyone access. Legally you absolutely do not have the right to be on the property. When it is public and IF and when it is "paved" over and no longer "private property" you can assess all day and night.
"There is a lot you can do"
For flyers against this misuse of land for personal profit contact.
stopthemall@hotmail.com
If Paul Bowman and Doug Calcagni are so interested in the people of Cheshire, why don't they open their property to anyone who wants to see it. I can understand it if the people wanted to bring vehicles on the property, but what harm would it be for people to walk on it? Is there something to hide?
I can't believe they have had people arrested for trespass.
We are led to believe that W/S will have this wonderful river walk available to the public. Isn't that nice, but why are they arresting people who want to see the river now?
"I think you are jumping the gun on saying they(the Herald), are for the plan. It's way to early for this. I think they along with the citizens need to hear more."
First you have to read the editorial again if you couldn't see that editor is all for this zone change and everything that will happen after that. Trust the local developer?
As for, "they and the citizens have to hear more". I agree that the citizens have to hear more, but they have to hear the correct information not just from the promoters, Fazzone, Adinalfi, realtors and all the others that will profit from it.
The Herald has to ask the hard questions and search for the truth and report the truth to the people, and not just listen to and print what the pro people want them to report. And, they have to start listening to the people who are against this and think about what they are concerned about because they have many good reasons to be against it.
Search out and print the truth.
I don't think most of the people are against this. Years ago, people were VERY VOCAL when wanting the pool. In past years there were groups in town, they made their voices heard publicly. School additions, people were vocal one way or another. The Police Dept. addition.
When people care one way or another strongly you see it. I'm just not seeing it here. Personally I don't care one way or another if it is approved.
"I don't think most of the people are against this."
Most people still don't know what this is all about. They think that there will be some more stores and that would be nice.
They don't realize that this can become 400 acres of malls and hundreds of apartments. The net can be very disappointing.
The troubling part is that there are almost no facts from an independent sources. How can P&Z can approve this on the so little information?
Madison has regs that require a developer to provide site plans and impact studies before a zone change can be considered. If it is really good, it can get the O'K. If the developer does not do it, then it indicates that maybe it just wasn't good for the town. What's wrong with Cheshire? The only logical choice the P&Z has is to reject this request, establish regs like Madison and if W/S wants, they can reapply. And, if they don't want to reapply, then it might mean it would not have been good for Cheshire.
What's the rush?
Great comment. Logical. The rush I'm afraid is if it passes it can't be change. Why we don't have what Madison has in place is beyond me. There are over 40 other towns that have this. What happened to us? Who's looking out? It better be the P&Z.
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