Wednesday, July 16, 2008

PBC subcommittee minutes June 4 - hWg 30

I'm guessing that some of my Council colleagues won't appreciate me posting these public documents here.

I'm also guessing that President Bush doesn't appreciate people discussing the Scooter Libby case.

Some people dislike transparency and full disclosure.

Tim White


Anonymous said...

It's public info. Sorry that they might not like it. As a taxpayer with ever increasing taxes, I don't like what some of them are doing with my tax dollars (local, State and fed).

Anonymous said...


One would have never thought that the Public Building Commission would field but 2 members dealing with an item this important to the town. I also would have never thought that our town engineering department (assume we have an Engineering Department) would have ever approved a design which could not be built because the basic components were never approved by the design authority for actual use in a public building before. I would have thought this incompatibility would have been picked up by our town engineer during initial reviews of proposals.

How could any sizable project which could significantly impact public safety get to this point so late in the process? This looks like bush league stuff and one wonders why any of those involved should remain on any list of qualified bidders until they show a better understanding of the basic design concepts.

tim white said...

the Public Building Commission would field but 2 members

This was a subcommittee meeting. I believe those meetings are normally three members.

a design which could not be built

I didn't read that anywhere. Similar language, but there's a difference between "never been done" vs "can't be done."

Anonymous said...

Tim- -

Look at the Riello Burners letter of May 1, 2008.

They state “… at this time we have no shop drawings or engineering testing performed on such a system. We therefore do not have as a standard offering at this time the required package …”

Now, the town has basically offered to pay the successful bidder to install that bidder’s design. The bidder could not apparently provide the necessary design work in-house since the bidder is only a plumber. So, the plumber has hired a subcontractor who is actually a real engineer. It is engineers who design things that are used in public buildings, not usually plumbers. The engineer has rules to follow and he is responsible to follow any design elements set down by the provider of the equipment being installed. Plumbers implement the engineers’ work.

If he knows what he is doing and he disagrees with something the equipment supplier mandates the engineer can certainly go beyond what the equipment supplier recommends but there is one little sticky point here. The equipment supplier is responsible for engineering his equipment too so Reillo must follow certain engineering rules to offer this type of equipment for public use.

Poorly engineered systems in the end cause performance problems or worse. Basically if there is a future problem someone will decide to sue. It is in everyone’s best interest to have followed all the applicable design requirements up front and to document that they did in calculations, drawings, specifications and test reports etc.

Based on Riello’s letter the design provided by the plumber cannot be built unless shop drawings are developed and engineering testing is performed on the system prior to its being released for normal use in a public building. So, someone can pay Reillo to do this which would be the least cost path to success no doubt or the engineer of record on this project could undertake all the work necessary. Cases of organizations finding out the hard way that stuff just doesn’t fit nicely together and work just like a Lego Set when building customized equipment are too numerous to discuss here so what Reillo says is for everyone’s protection in the end.

There is of course another alternative. Develop and implement a design which is proven to work and accepted to work. This is what the town should have insisted upon and any knowledgeable bidder should have supplied in the first place. Next time, maybe the town would be better served if it hired and engineering firm or an architectural firm to actually develop a legitimate design which could then be built by a plumber instead of hiring a plumber who had to hire an engineer who had to get the town PBC to go along with what couldn’t be built as currently designed.

Anonymous said...

How does CCC feel about all of this?
Have they talked with anyone about a potential lawsuit?
How do you win a bid and then completely change the project?
Oh, I forgot, you're a Bowman.

Anonymous said...

It’s easy to blame the bidder for this and no doubt the bidder is over his head on this one and is having problems so basic that - - -. Maybe more important though is that even after all the mess associated with the municipal pool town government just can’t get stuff right the first time, the second time, the third time and - - -. And then there is that software package and - - -

Hello, is anyone home out there in official town business land anyway?

Anonymous said...

The T in Tim is for Transparency.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like the original specs are changing....Bowman says there's no cost impact changing to the Honeywell it the same price or cheaper?...things are so messed up I say they should void the deal and go out to bid a fourth time!!!!

Anonymous said...

The three Matts -- Altieri, Hall, Bowman -- are Milking Much Money indeed.

The name 'Matthew' in Hebrew means gift of God, but in their case, God must have been sleeping.

Anonymous said...

Did Matt Bowman contribute $10,000 for a turf study?

Chipmaker said...

The lack of due diligence of design and specification in this situation is appalling.

Anonymous said...

8:19 I heard the same thing that he gave the $10K. Florio originally said that it was given by an "anonymous donor". I don't think information should be withheld on who gave the money. I would bet it was him. He even said at one meeting that he gives lots of money to sports in town. His family has a strong connection to football. One might wonder what favors would be returned for giving so much money...hmmm

Anonymous said...

Can you answer this for us?
When someone in this town donates a large sum of money to have something done, shouldn't it be public knowledge, especially if that person is bidding on a public project?
Who should be the watchdog to make sure people aren't buying off favors?
I am not saying this is what happened here, but how can we be sure?
We should also know who was the person who asked for the artificial turf grant. This should be public knowledge, especially if it was one of the members of the town council. It boggles my mind why a tc member would ask for that over a permanent pool roof structure.

We need you to ask these hard questions Tim.

Anonymous said...

Tom Gaffey is taking credit for getting the slush find money for the turf in his taxpayer funded mailer

The fix is in

Anonymous said...

9: 06:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with regard to the premise(s) of any of your argument(s).

You may be able to snow your wife and friends with your baloney. Keep up the hard work; you may be able to run for TC if you can hone your bs skills further. Or perhaps you are already a member of the majority?