Tuesday, February 20, 2007

Visiting Canton

This afternoon, I happened to be in Avon for work. And Avon is right next door to Canton. So I asked a few people about their thoughts on The Shoppes at Farmington Valley.

Of the three responses:

Man #1: "You can't say no to the developers because you'll get in trouble for that. But you can make them do it your way. So you need to make sure you get what you want. And the traffic has gotten worse."

Woman #1: "It's ok, but I wish they had different shops and more shops. And this is much closer than West Farms."

Woman #2: "I love it, especially around Christmas."

And one followup point... I asked woman #1 "how far is West Farms?" She giggled and somewhat red-faced said "well, it's not that far."

Then I drove the five minutes to Canton and visited the Shoppes. My overall impression was that it was nicely done.

Again though, one key ingredient in me supporting the retail component... our Town Planner, Bill Voelker, assured us that courts do not recognize precedent in land use law. That's important to me because I don't want to see the whole northend suddenly get covered with big box stores.

One other comment I heard was quite interesting. It was about wages... with all the additional retail space, this project may drive up some wages... something good for workers, but not so good for businesses... just another aspect to add to the dialogue.

And one last point of clarification to my prior post on this... the aerial view that I posted was different from the one that was given to the Council a few weeks ago. To the best of my memory, the retail was the same. But the residential was entirely different... both the Cheshire & Southington sides.

Tim White
Town Council, 4th District

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

So "man #1" says the traffic is much worse.(We know we'll have the same problem.)
"Woman #2" just thinks it's ok and wishes there were more or different shops.(I already see people heading to the malls out of town.)
"Woman #3" thinks it's great at Christmas time.(What about the other 11 months out of the year?)

Not too encouraging.

Tim White said...

In fairness to the first woman, her tone of voice was much more enthusiastic than my written words suggested. Her disappointment was more that she wanted some different stores.

I didn't take it in anyway that she was upset that the existing stores were built.

Anonymous said...

And I can tell you that I know three people who live in canton who will tell you they all love it, shop there and are happy as all helk that its there.

As for the development driving up wages. whats wrong with that, isnt that how free market economy works.

This town is a joke, there are no family restuarants for those of us with kids, none zero. There are few places to shop, if we want to go to a movie we have to go to Southington, or Wallingford etc.

The Schools are overrated and the parks and recreation dept and facilities are a joke. I have no idea where this town got such a high opinion of itself but its not justified. We cant wait to leave.

Tim White said...

10:44... I didn't mean to say that driving up wages is bad. I just meant to put it out there as part of the discussion.

As for the family restaurants, I agree 100%. I'd love to see a family restaurant or two in town. I agree with my mom's idea of a family restaurant in the northend... a Cracker Barrel to be precise.

Btw, if you have any suggestions for the northend, you may want to post them here. I've heard that the developers themselves stop by here every so often.

Anonymous said...

This blog should be correctly called Tim White Talks not Tim White Listens.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the town has issues. Most of our issues come from watching every penny and not seeing the big picture. Under fifty years of Republican "leadership" we have no parks, are school buildings are second class and we fight every development project. We have fallen behind other towns around us and all they care about is their special projects like the linear park. They did build the pool?? Watch out becasue the developer may pull out of this project because of the unfair attacks on them.

Anonymous said...

Dear Developers,

If, as Tim alluded to, you read the comments on this blog to gage public sentiment toward the lifestyle center, then I beg of you to disregard the requests for a family restaurant in your development. The town has plenty of family-friendly restaurants. That most of them are Italian or pizzerias should not suggest to you that there is an unfilled niche. What Cheshire desperately needs are high quality restaurants. Since I've lived in Cheshire the culinary high point has been the closing of the Pizza Hut/Taco Bell/KFC. That it recently reemerged as an Arbys illustrates the persistence of bad food in town. The last thing Cheshire needs is a family restaurant such as Chilis, Applebees or any establishment whose menu includes words like "smothered in", "gooey". or "colossal". First, the food in those restaurants is undistinguishable. But more important, with their typical serving containing 1000 calories and 80 grams of fat, they are unhealthy. I'm sure you don't plan on leasing space to a store that sells cigarettes, so why support an establishment that fosters eating habits that lead to obesity, diabetes and hypertension? My recommendations are for a restaurant that serves New American cuisine and uses ingredients produced locally and for an ethnic restaurant (Italian does not count). I would favor Vietnamese or Indian, but any restaurant that uses high quality ingredients, employs cooking techniques beyond deep-frying, and incorporates into their food a variety of flavors and spices, often in new and unusual combinations, would be most welcome.

Anonymous said...

WHITE SAID:

I love it, especially around Christmas.

ANON10:31 SAID:

thinks it's great at Christmas time.(What about the other 11 months out of the year?)

Anonymous said...

Dear 10:59am I find your comments racist (against Italians and other groups including people who enjoy KFC) and offensive. What you want may be different than what other people want. I am not sure who you are to tell everyone where they should eat. It is the same attitude of the people who don't want this project built becasue they have decided that we should not shop.

You vote with your dollars when you choose a place to eat and when enough people agree with you, you will have the places that you like. Your input could have been written in a more sensitive way.

Anonymous said...

Dear 12:10 PM,

Hmm...I wasn't aware of a race of people defined by their predilection for KFC; I'll have to alert my colleagues in the anthropology department. I apologize if I offended you when I suggested that the town doesn't need a 10th, or would that be 11th, Italian restaurant. I meant no offense against Italians, rather that perhaps the town would appreciate a restaurant that focused on different cuisine. So allow me to emend my previous post by stating that I would also welcome a good Italian restaurant.

As for me telling everyone what they should eat, I would never be so audacious. Instead, I only wanted to point out the epidemic problem of obesity in this country and that the cause is due, in part, to unhealthy eating habits. More specifically, too many people eat too large portions of food that is too high in fat and salt. Many family restaurants, among others, promote the consumption of large amounts of high fat food with their large plates, super size options and all-you-can-eat buffets. Because they do so as they provide your children with crayons, coloring books and other toys makes them even more insidious.

As for voting with my money, one cannot vote for a candidate that is not in the race. First, let's have a high quality restaurant open in Cheshire, then I'll cast my ballot.

Anonymous said...

Then the answer is very easy, you open the resturant that will offer all the benefits that you have outlined. I am sure it will do well and the people in town will have a new healthy place to go. I do agree that the town would benefit from a greater selection.

Anonymous said...

I love the chatter about Cheshire ought to have this or that....especially about restaurants and retail stores.
You might want to look up the terms "capitalism", "free enterprise" and "supply and demand".
If there was a strong enough demand for Hmong food in town there would be a Hmong style restaurant.
If there was a strong enough demand for a "quality shoe store" there would be one.
Retailers and restauranteurs response to demand.....not the musings of boring and disenchanted bloggers.
Within VERY SHORT driving distances of Cheshire....and IN Cheshire....there are all kinds of restaurants...some good, some bad......but more than enough to satisfy the masses who live in Cheshire....try looking in the Yellow Pages for New Haven County.
Ask the people who have tried to run a restaurant at the Cornwall House....or whatever that place is called opposite Cornwall Ave at South Main. If there was such a demand for high end restaurants why couldn't a number of people make a go of it.
If you want New York cuisine, move to New York. If you want Saks Fifth Avenue style shopping, move to New York. My guess is that the usual false elitism is at work here. Too many people in Cheshire prance around thinking they are Talbotts when they are really Marshalls under the skin!!!

The hypocrisy of this whole debate about the "Lifestyle Center" is that most people moved to town because it is still (relatively)green and quiet....not like the 1950's certainly but a lot better than some of the surrounding, congested communities. Let's stop being spoiled brats who want a peaceful house and neighborhood but then demand all the commercial amenities of a big city....stores, exotic restaurants and entertainment within a few miles of our quiet abodes.
You can't have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

Dave - Have a drink, take a pill and relax it will be OK.

Anonymous said...

I just read Dave Schrumms's letter to the editor in todays Herald. I fear the wheels have come off. His mindset pretty much matches all the other old timers who have this irrational fear that Cheshire will be destroyed by retail development. if I recall, its the same group that predicted the same fate when the new Stop and Shop was built. Of course, the sky did not fall, the end did not come and the lifestyle of residents was better for it.

I am starting to think that Mr. Schrumm, who is a very bright , intelligent, concerned man, does think however, that the rest of us may be ignorant. We are not, we want this development for all that it will provide to us and mean for us. Its as simple as that. fact is I dont knwo a single person I associate with in this town who is against it. So lets get it done.

And I will say this, I too will work to vote out of office any elected official who votes against this if it were to fail. And I do mean any official.......

Anonymous said...

Tim, a few republicans keep calling you a tax and spender, but I heard it was you who saved the town a million bucks by getting altieri and the democrats to reject the ballfields and ask CYB to pay. Is that true?

Anonymous said...

4:52 and Schrumm endorsed "regional planning."

Regional planning is for LIBERALS.

We need local control, not Regionalistas!

To find a true conservative in Cheshire, dial 555-EXTINCT.

Anonymous said...

I've just closed my dictionary, so let's see if I understand capitalism. Many people in town are "demanding" higher quality retail, food and entertainment, and now there's a developer who is willing to "supply" the stores, restaurants and theaters. Seems simple enough. In addition, there are many towns that have developed an area with good shopping and restaurants, and yet maintained a peaceful community. It requires a little thought and planning, but if you'd rather not do the work, kindly step aside so that the rest of us can.

adb said...

I agree with so much of what has been said. In today’s Herald, Dave Schrumm made the point that local retailers and businesses which are already struggling may not survive if this development is built. Excuse me, but is that not what a free market economy dictates? Businesses which provide a product or service at lower cost or superior quality will thrive while those that don’t will not. This has been the case for the last 50 years at least since the big retail boom took off.
The fact is, the majority of retail stores and restaurants in this town, barring a dozen or so, don’t really have much to offer.

This town needs this development, residents want it, and it’s long overdue.

Another statement made by Mr. Schrumm, was that residents are complaining that their are no manufacturers, no high tech companies coming to Cheshire or Connecticut and that if true Connecticut is doomed. Uh, well has anyone read the recent articles and reports on the state of employment, manufacturing and high paid job growth in this state? It is pitifully nonexistent in terms of growth because the cost of business is so high.

The people in this town are so incredibly hypocritical. When it comes to the state handing out money for pork projects like skate parks, turf fields and the like, residents and leaders alike say "well its wasteful, but if we don’t take it, some other town will" . Well the same could be said for retail development. If we continue to turn it away, it will move next door anyway. Further, this notion being perpetuated that Cheshire is going to eventually attract high tech, manufacturing or the like is pure nonsense. The industrial area is a joke, an absolute joke.

I grew up in a beautiful town on Long Island. During the 1970's, they built an industrial and office park literally around the corner. Today that park is the largest in the State of NY and where surrounding towns have property taxes ranging from $15,000 a year and up, my parents who still live there, pay less in property tax on their 2600 square foot, $700,000 house than I pay on my 1900 square foot $360,000 house in Cheshire.

That Industrial office park has more occupants in a two block radius than Cheshire has in the entire town. That’s an industrial park, not the little rinky dink one we have here.

And although they don’t need the property tax relief in the town where my parents live, they also have retail development that dwarfs anything in Chesire, has always been tastefully done and has done nothing to reduce the property values of the homes nearby.

So enough with the nonsense and the scare tactics. I can point to real world examples of what works and what doesn’t. This town isn’t working; it isn’t moving forward and eventually will end up the town forgotten in time.

It’s fine for everyone to express their opinion but how about supporting it with some facts. As for the so called leaders in town, the only open minded ones I see right now are Tim White and a few of the Democrats on the Council. I am a republican and I can tell you I am pretty fed up with the party in this town which has its head in the proverbial sand.

Tim White said...

5:08 Tim, a few republicans keep calling you a tax and spender, but I heard it was you who saved the town a million bucks by getting altieri and the democrats to reject the ballfields and ask CYB to pay. Is that true?

huh? I'm not sure I follow. Could you elaborate?

Anonymous said...

last summer, orsini, rocco and altieri’s democrats wasted ten thousnd bucks on a dumb ball field study. You votde to save the money. After the money was wasted, the ball fields got killed and CYB said they would pay.

The democrats hate Schrumm. he has no influence. But I heard you did influence the vote and save us a million bucks.

Anonymous said...

Not true.

Anonymous said...

schrumm thinks planning and zoning is smart because they ignored the norhtend for 50 years.

does he think planning and zoning is smart because they ignored the dam for 30 years?

Tim White said...

1:07... Ha! Thanks for the credit, but that's definitely the first time I ever heard that one.

Anonymous said...

I read the letter in the paper this week. Now tell me if I am wrong but didn't planning and zoning approve a major mall in the north end? Did David S. for forget this or was he just lying? I also think that we gave an extention on the OK when the developer had financial problems. How can he say that we have never considered retail in the north end?

If that is his level of honesty I don't he should be a memeber of the council. He should resign now. Clearly he had fallen off the tracks. What will he do next? His time had past.

Anonymous said...

Give it up Diane.

Anonymous said...

Dave Schrumm should resign now!!! He is nuts. If he is willing to lie he should be forced to give up his seat. But I am sure that Hall would never hold his feet to the fire.

Anonymous said...

Diane? She could never find this web site.