Proposed ND residential
With the impending PZC vote, I've had people asking me about my current feelings on the residential component, so here goes...
My hope was that the proposed residential would do something to help stem The Brain Drain being experienced in CT. But from my point of view, the current proposal for 2,000 sq. ft., 2-BR units will do nothing to address The Brain Drain... which is disappointing. So I don't see the point in the residential. Furthermore, from speaking with people around town... and from knocking on doors in the 4th over the past month... I certainly don't feel as though there is any outcry supporting residential in the proposal.
And on a related note, someone asked in another post about the ability of the people to oppose the residential component. So here's probably the key part of the Charter... the powers of initiative and referendum:
It might be an interesting legal question... could an ordinance prohibiting residential (or retail) prohibit the project from moving forward? I'm not a lawyer and I'm not sure... although I imagine state land use law would govern.
Tim White
31 comments:
Your against the residential, but your O'K with 400 acres of malls and shops?
What about the term mixed use?
I also have been asking my neighbors and friends around town their feelings on the residential. Even the people who are die hard supporters of the shopping are not in favor of the residential. If the P&Z really represents the people then the residential portion would be removed before this goes forward.
Can they remove residential from the Town Plan and the Zone text changes before they vote or do they have to vote on it as it currently is?
It seems the town is mixed, maybe slightly in favor of retail. But the townspeople are OVERWHELMINGLY AGAINST RESIDENTIAL. New housing (non-senior housing) almost always costs towns more than it brings in new revenue. And if this becomes Section 8 housing, watch the costs to the town go through the ceiling!
I'll gladly support any referendum which seeks to overturn a P&Z ruling that allows residential.
At least 90% of Cheshire residents don't know that the entire 400 acres can become malls and big box stores and that can have a devastating effect on our current business owners who are also our neighbors.
Given a choice, most would prefer more shopping closer to the center or west main.
Don't ever believe a Cheshire Herald poll and that's what most people refer to when they say people don't mind the stores. If everything is explained to the people and a real statistically correct poll were taken, you would find the results a lot different.
This plan will lose on Monday night and this debate will have no meaning.
There are a few P&Z members who are definitely against the residential. I think the plan will pass, but I hope that the majority has the common sense to eliminate residential.
If indeed we can block the residential with a referendum, then I will support and work to make it happen in any way that I can.
This is the smoke and mirrors that the developers had hoped that the town of cheshire would bite. We have hook line and sinker. They said they didn't need the residential. They have other wording in there that they want. Curve ball. Watch out they will get the residential later. We are going to be had just like Canton. We didn't listen and will pay forever and ever.
I wonder how many other people that voted for the W/S proposal are for it now.
Art Hostage had the guts to change his mind. Anyone else?
anyone counting votes on the residential or on the mall?
Art Hostiage changed his mind because he is worried that we are buying too much stuff from China and he thought with more stores we would just but more, it had nothing to do with Cheshire or the proposal.
PZC is voting on this Monday night...no TV. Show up and show your stuff. You can be sure the yes buttons will plastered on all the local real estate crowd which will be on hand for sure.
They're looking out for them not for you!
Make your signs now..."NO RESIDENTIAL"....Bring them to Town Hall. Ask why the biggest vote made by PZC in memory can't be televised?
This project will happen unless a real big crowd has the gumption to show up. Spread the word. The telephone pole signs are useless now. Show up and make a showing for reason.
It may not work but you might as well make the commissioners think there is a something to what NO means...and they are accountable for this very big looming decision.
I have it on good information the PZ will pass it on Monday. stay home you are wasting your time.
Step back oldtimer the train is coming donwn the track
Good housing and stores
10:52
So you have it on good information. I'm very impressed. And from which commissioners have you received this advanced information from? Their names or initials will do. Or is this really just one of your informed hunches newcomer?
Matt Hall's letter to Herald
Why didn't he look at what the P&Z commission is doing. There is no written process or methodology for making this text change to the Town wide Plan and the zone change, they are winging it. It's total confusion, the town lawyer isn't even there. This isn't some website date error. Talk about something that is being manipulated, this certainly is. The town planner adds to the confusion and has mislead the members on many points with his opinions. Why are they always talking about W/S's proposal rather than the changes to the town plan and how it would affect the entire town and then talk about the zone changes that would affect the entire 400 acres zone. Why do they have to keep checking with W/S if any new wording is O'K with them? In effect W/S is writing both documents exactly as they and other developers want them and with a minimum of restraints written in. Why can W/S's lawyer be in constant contact with the Planning Dept and everyone else is excluded?
Why don't they ask town department heads and state experts for input?
The entire text change on both the Town Plan and the Zone Changes should be rejected until a real process is developed to determine what information is needed to make this kind of decision, who should be requested to supply information, who has to be present, what is the process that has to be followed and how to keep the public well informed with television coverage and the prompt posting of minutes on the web.
The way they are doing this is totally unacceptable. Nobody in the business world would do things like this. Matt hall and Elizabeth Estey should be appalled and should be calling for an investigation.
Well said. For a small town pzc, W/S is a big fish lobby. Objective opinions from various outside experts should have been required. In fact, the pzc should have sought out dissenting opinions of an equal caliber. Instead, we had an open forum with an ill-prepared group of residents (no fault of the residents), upstaged by a cheerleading squad and a glossy pamphlet.
Why have plan changes been co-authored in a vacuum alongside the benefactor? Processes that work fine for small-scale petitions, do not necessarily upscale.
-csh
(art blog - political blog - gallery)
The following is from a W/S promotional website, probably to get tenants.
W/S had said that it wouldn't effect route 10 traffic all that much, but their promo map is intended to show how easy it is to get there, including rt 10.
W/S always has more than one story and different supporting facts depending on who they are trying to influence.
Commuters using rt 10 should think about leaving earlier for work and getting home later. Also, they should bring a book to read, make sure they have plenty of gas, and a jug of water in case their car overheats. If you have the right mind set, sitting in traffic can be fun. Also, make sure you have your cell phone so while you have nothing to do, you can bother others. Enjoy your new "Life Style".
Check the map
http://www.wsdevelopment.com/images/Properties/78/Map.jpg
W/S's Facts of this market area are
Population 696,820
Households 271,381
Average Household Income $67,165
I assume the following that they list is the daily traffic as of 2002.
Traffic
I-84 64,000 ('02)
I-691 52,000 ('02)
Route 10 23,000 ('02)
Residential is good for W/S. There are already approx 80 age restricted units at Riverside Condos, add 150 W/S units and maybe 400 or more in the other 300 acres and you have additional selling points to draw possible retailers. So having up to 630 units in the immediate area, could provide regular customers, and the Cheshire taxpayers could pick up the educational and other costs.
Adding 450 residential units to the sewer system should not be a problem as the EPA willjust pencil in a 10% higher capacity for the plant. This shows the pen is mightier than truth.
csh
The PZC has had dozens of zone text changes over many years...aquifer protection, age restricted housing, etc. Big changes managed fairly well. It may appear at times the town is run by a bunch of amateurs but that's not the case. Legal precedent and state statute are among the many guideposts that become the frameworks of many of these applicant driven text changes. Cheshire would never have had an industrial park without a text change. Zoning regulations are works in progress as they are intended to be. Commissioners have to use good judgement and the public may quarrel with some of their decisions but it doesn't take place without a very thoughtful and investigative process in the full light of day.
Very good post, maybe the most reasonible that I have seen in a long time.
Ok repeat after me
The north end is gonna happen
The north end is goonna happen
For your consideration.
"Commissioners have to use good judgement"
To have good judgement, you have to have good information, and for this zone change there is too little valid information to approve it and it would be a crime to approve until the real issues are raised and all the important questions are answered. Currently, there is no unbiased professional information on key items available to the commission members. Can a good decision be based on just the information of the developers, the pro project personal opinions of the Town Planner, false polls, and paid promotional material from the developer? How can a decision be made when everyone knows of all the blatant actions to attacks anyone opposed to the bad use of this property and the all out effort to silence and eliminate all attempts to present any information that suppoorts a better use of this zone.
90% or more of the questions that were asked by the public at the earlier meetings were never answered. When are those question going to be answered?
The developer has written the text changes to meet their needs and those of the owners of the other 300 acres. Why do we let a developer write the changes to the town plan and to the zone change? These should only be done by the commission and only after a real effort to determine what is best for the town and without a developer pushing the process.
This is a seriously flawed hearing real unbiased professional testimony, without a lawyer present and hidden from the public, no TV and no minutes on the website.
It is totally unfair to put so much pressure on commission members to approve these changes with the information available and under the time restraints.
If it's to be done, let's do it right.
The commission members should reject the changes at this time and then proceed to get all the information that they need to determine if this is in the real best interests of their neigbors.
If it's to be done, let's do it right.
We don't need another mall.
If people want more shopping, what's wrong with adding it on West Main, on Maple and So Main St. There are plenty of places to add more stores right here in town. Instead of putting our loacl businesses out of business, doesn't it make more sense to add to what we already have. And, we wouldn't have to drive to the 691 mall that would be 4.1 miles, or 8.2 miles round trip, from the center of town.
If you think about real cost, 8.2 miles time an average cost of 30 cents a mile is over $2.40 per trip and you would save so much time.
what do you mean "another"
We don;t even have one
More shopping in this town is needed
Step off old timer
WS and the boys gonna get ya something real nice
I hope all the old timers that this nut refers to all the time never shop at "The Shoppes at Cheshire". We will see how long they remain in business. The "Baby Boomers" have the money to spend.
The bottom line is the P&Z should not allow residential in this zone. We do not need more residential and it will not benefit the town as a whole. I'm really interested in the issue of a referendum to stop this if it is approved. Can anyone tell me whether this in fact true? Can a referendum stop this?
Appeals. Appeals and more appeals. Why do forty towns require an impact study to be made and paid for by the developers and mighty Cheshire does not?????
I believe "initiative" begins with the people. "Referendum" begins with the Council.
ED... interesting story. Nonetheless, I feel "mixed use" applies to residential above retail, not residential adjacent to retail.
I am sure that there will be any appeal of tonight's P&Z decision no matter what that decision is.
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