Completion of impact study
Here's the latest I've seen on the ND grassroots front:
I do have a question on my mind about this proposal... I seem to recall comments made at the last public hearing about the impact study not yet having been completed (has it even been commissioned yet?) and that there is a direct conflict (arising from state imposed deadlines) that makes it impossible for the impact study to be completed before PZC votes on this.
Is that a fair assessment? Is it more complicated than that? As well, does anyone have any guess as to whether PZC will be voting on this next Monday? I'm guessing they have the option, but will defer to a later date. I'm really looking for someone to shed some light on the process.
Tim White
Town Council, 4th District
141 comments:
tim, your blog is famous.
Any and all impact studies should be completed, submitted, reviewed and validated before any vote is taken to change the zone text. If the vote is taken and approved for change before the impact studies are completed then where is the reason, desire and motivation for the developer to complete the studies?
I was told that there will NOT be a vote until sometime after Monday's public hearing.
Hey Tim...i was going on vacation and those slugs(12weeks) issuing passports were not giving me answers 10 days before my trip....called joe Liebermans ofice and one of his assts called back 2 days later with an overnight tracking # for our passports...Go Joe Go!
Tim,
With all due respect, I think you should be ashamed of yourself for not knowing the answers to the questions you posed regarding the PZC procedures. They have been asked and answered at both public hearings.
The PZC decision will have the biggest impact on Cheshire in memory and while it may be a scant 8 miles from the heart of the fourth district this will impact the entire town for years to come. Give your quest for solving the energy crisis a break and get behind stopping this disaster from besetting Cheshire.
PZC likely won't vote on this until the end of June. Public comment can be heard no later than 5/7/07 public hearing.
To your absolute credit and hardwork, your blog has provided an excellent format for sharing information.
The only decision for the P&Z is to DENY. W/S was showing their muscle at the last meeting by reminding the P&Z of dates. Remember? The impact study could be made and the dev. could request the text change a 2nd time, if they are sincere. This procedure should be reviewed very closely. Everything is in the favor or the developer. This is wrong. We should move at our our timeline not theirs. Let's look to all the other towns, Guilford and Madison said No. Watertown no impact study (to expensive for Konover) if you can believe that one. This is a bad way to do business. "The cart before the horse" routine does not work. Much is at stake. More time is needed as these other towns have figured out. We should do the same.
Because the Town Council voted for this,only a majority is needed to pass this change. P&Z could pass it 2-1, if only 3 members show up and they decide to vote on this. Let's hope not. Something should be done about this. The impact this change could have is enormous. There should be some checks and balances. That is why some members of the Town Council made a HUGE mistake in passing it. They are the fiscal branch of our town. Remember in Nov., they should be voted out. They left the town exposed.
Letters to P&Z can be given to Planning and Zoning for the record after 5/7. Keep writing letters. The CHARACTER of Cheshire is in jeopardy.Over 300 years of hard work by so many people can be changed the next few months. Imagine you can't even vote on this. That's the reality of all this. If changed it is lost forever.
There's sleaze written all over this, from their arguments down to their lawyers. Anyone with half a brain knows this shouldn't pass without an impact study. Rest assured that any council member or P&Z member who voted/votes for this will pay a political price. We WILL see to it. Wise up.
This whole process stinks. What state legislators passed this law. Was it Fritz? All of them should go. All the towns must make decisions with short time deadlines. This does not help good deveopment,it hurts it. Look around all these developers want to change zoning laws that were passed to protect the citizens, their biggest investment and the environment. They are looking to catch towns asleep and make large amount of $$$. They don't care about costs to the towns. Look at the laws . The towns must provide the services in the future after they are long gone. How will Cheshire be any different than any other town around us? All values will go down(not just property) This is a BIG price to pay. I for one, would rather pay higher taxes now than later to keep what we have. The reason I moved here was because of the safety and character of Cheshire. I don't want to change the rules in the middle of the game..
I can't wait for the shoppes at Cheshire to open-it is going to be great and it will help out our town. The citizens want it the P and Z wants it and the council wants it. Lets get Cheshire on the map with this great development.
Stop being so much of chicken little folks and put your best foot forward.
I'm a Democrat but let me tell you, if this is passed by the Democrats in the P&Z (like it was by the Town Council) this will end up being their Waterloo.
9:53AM Who says that all the citizens and the P&Z want this? All the people that I talk to are definitely against the residential and want more answers before the retail is approved. I'm no chicken little but unlike youself I'm not counting chickens before they hatch.
wHO ARE YOU???
Are Paul, Steven, Matt or Justin.
Whoever you are, you are only thinking of you wallet and don't care give a damn about this town.
This is a family town. If you don't like it, move and all your neigbors will cheer.
I can't wait for the shoppes at Cheshire to open-it is going to be great and it will help out our town. The citizens want it the P and Z wants it and the council wants it. Lets get Cheshire on the map with this great development.
Stop being so much of chicken little folks and put your best foot forward.
On the contrary I am thinking of my town not myself. If I was thinking of myself I would welcome this. I like Cheshire as a family town and I think this will undermine that. I don't think this is the greatest thing that could happen to Cheshire. Look at Canton they thought this was wonderful and now they don't feel the same way. Last year they had over 750 police calls to the Shoppes at Canton. Is this what you call great for your family? I don't. Stop thinking about YOURSELF!
I wish that it could go to a vote, the people should decide.
I saw go and go to the project. Lets get behind this good deal for Cheshire.
I saw go and go to the project. Lets get behind this good deal for Cheshire.
I like the turf and I like the shoppes and I like the town and I like the idea
Go go go for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey if you don't like it you can move to a town where they like to see the cows graze-
Step back old timer-time to see the light
W/s and the boys are coming to town
Fix you up a batch of good shopes and rest.
No more roll up the sidewalks at 7pm
Its gonna happen and all your lame signs that I tear down at every occasion not gonna make it
Ha Ha Ha
You can tear down the signs but not the will of the people.
10:57 I'm thoroughly sick of the old timer references. For one I'm not totally against the shopping. I am against the residential. I just want more answers before this is approved. I'm also far from and old timer. If individuals like yourself represent the people in favor of this we have nothing to worry about.
I went out this morning and tore down 7 signs all over town
I use them to wipe out my chicken cage.
Then I dream about the north end all developed with all the good stuff
See ya later old timer!
the only reason the anits are not for this is because they are really having some personal problems like not having a real job and being fired over ten years ago from the insurance industry and have made the rest of us pay because they could not get along with anyone where they work.Now they read the wall street journal and think they have a clue
They dont-lets throw them out and tell them to pipe down.
Isn't it funny how individuals stating their opposition to this proposal list valid reasons for their position. The individuals for this proposal can only list abuse either by age or whatever they can throw out. "Intelligent" valid reasons for being in favor of this never materialize. I wonder why? Maybe because there aren't any.
hey all this talk is getting me mad-we need the north end and we need to get Cheshire to the point where we will have everything we need right here
Go Shoppes go!!!!!!!!!
No more CAVE Men
After reading the last two comments I've come to the conclusion the inbreeding is still alive and well!
Anonymous 8:28...
Tim should be ashamed of himself because he asked someone to confirm his understanding?
Why should he be ashamed of himself? That makes no sense.
Sounds like you have a personal issue with Tim. It's called getting clarification, which I consider being responsible.
The Town Council should have asked for more clarification before passing this on to the P&Z. There were many unanswered questions and they just passed the buck.
1:29 I agree, inbreeding is alive and well. Any of the comments in favor of the north end development posted here with all the spelling errors, etc. tells me they are not capable of making an intelligent comment. I doubt they could come up with logical reasons why they think we need this mixed use project.
Supporters of this disaster are constantly trying to mislead the public. W/C keeps changing their story and always hides behind that they don't know yet. Remember Alberto Gonzalez's answers to the Senate committee, I don't recall, don't remember, etc for 74 times. Well W/C sounds a lot like Alberto with their don't knows. If they don't know by now, on so many questions, how can you trust them to do anything right? Or, how can you beleive what they say? Does anyone want to guess when they will know?
2 months from now
6 months from now
1 year
2 years
more than 5 years
Anon 1:51 re; Tim
I have no personal issue with Tim. He gets my vote again. You will note that I commend Tim in my earlier post.
My concern is with every council person who has voted to pass this on to PZC. They had to know the import their decision has. They also knew the nuts and bolts fell under the purview of PZC which made an easy out... "we don't understand this stuff...PZC is smarter than us" an arguement made plausable by their yes vote but hollow by their inaction and questions later.
Many, including Tim have monitored the public hearings. For me, every elected and appointed public official should be as informed as most of the posters to this site on an issue so important to the community.
Councilors did raise questions pertaining to fiscal impacts yet they went unheeded. Had a majority of TC voted the plan of development change down it still would have moved on to PZC but a super majority vote (6-3) by PZC would have been required to pass the proposed changes.
Now the public seems to be demanding a fiscal impact study, a townwide referendum, you name not everybody is happy for many of the same reasons raised by some on the council.
Council would have been serving the public interest if it had sent a signal that included its concerns about fiscal impact and mixed use.
YOU ARE ALL NUTS
Let the public vote!!!
5:45PM No not nuts - just too smart to have the wool pulled over our eyes!
All 5 Democrats voted in favor,Diane Visconti, Elizabeth Esty, Matt Hall, Matt Altieri, Michael Ecky. Elizabeth Estey thinks the current plan of development allows retail. When other Democrats voted, did they also think that retail was already allowed? There are other people who voted in favor of the zone change request thinking that retail was included.
Will Cheshire's character be changed from a family oriented residential town because of a 400 acre big box shopping center and all because the council acted on of flawed information?
anon 6:14 This would be great but a charter revision is needed. To late for that and nobody wants to touch it. There is only 9 people to convince vs thousands, which one would you take? A decision of this magnitude deserves more time and public vote period. P&Z must say NO NO NO..
You can see this right below.
See the Thursday, March 08, 2007
Schrumm vs. Miller blog below.
In response to Shrumm, Economic Development Commission member Brian Miller wrote:
In Shrumm's long, three-column discussion of his opposition to the proposed life-style center, Councilman Schrumm somehow forgot to educate the residents of Cheshire that this site was approved for a retail mall during the 1980s, and subsequently renewed by the Planning and Zoning Commission. Certainly, Mr. Schrumm must have .........
Well, Miller was dead wrong and mislead others. Does Mr. Miller want to change his vote?
Anon 7:52 Let's not forget the owner of this blog. He believed that there would be apartments over the stores. Everybody has different visions. I will bet no one group saw the same proposal. Smoke and mirrors, they are great at this. The owners will eventually make money on this land but they should wait for the right project,if they truly have Cheshire in mind.
Chill out the north end is gonna happen and all the signs and other stuff will not amount to beans/
The facts will amount to NO. The heck with the signs.
Mr Miller should have been corrected by the P&Z. They know better. All this talk of nothing happening on these 400 ACRES. CHECK OUT THE OWNERS. I will give you one, The State of CT. When you find out,you will draw your own conclusions and be surprised.
I don't think the state of CT owns any of it now. Try Bowman and Calcagni. If they want to make a lot, they get the zone changed and build rental units and sell land to W/C for a mall. Win, win win.
Cheshire taxpayers lose, lose, lose and they don't care.
Reject this request and they will consider offers from a buyers that fit the current zone or else they will have to be sit on dead money.
The State of CT (Homeland Security dept, maybe) owns land in the northeast quadrant.
I'm fairly certain it is included in the 400 acres, but it may not be. Nonetheless, at minimum there is state land adjacent to the 400 acres in the interchange zone.
When the north end rest. and stores open it will be the greatest thing for Cheshire. Those who don't like it can stay home and listen to the radio just like the old days
How's this scenario for changing the character of the town, folks:
The W/S project doesn't get the necessary approvals even after removing the retail component. The company abandons its project and the short-sighted masses cheer wildly. But watching from afar are all other types of developers - commercial, industial, office - who conclude that Cheshire has become anti-development again.
Taxes continue to rise and with no ratables to offset them, decent middle class folks - young and old - are forced to move out of town. The community suffers as a result,
Folks, that's what will ultimately happen if W/S is reject outright. People who compare Madison and its fight with developers don't know what they're talking about. Madison has really wealthy folks while Cheshire is made up large of middle class folks living beyond their means. Sure, there's some folks in town that have Madison-type money, but nowhere near as many as there are on the Shoreline.
The folks that are trying to seel the idea that this will ruin the town are the same people that really beleived that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. And because of that, the rest of the community will be led like lambs to the slaughter to the economic ruination of the town.
Anon 10:36
So W/S's plan is a weapon of Mass Destruction...but it's a ratable? Or is it just a ratable? Saddam wasn't a ratable?
Will Cheshire's other ratables thrive alongside this new ratable? You sound like an expert on ratables. Are you a ratable if W/S doesn't prevail or do you move to Madison or Southington? As for the data on the demographics of Madison...all the rich folks there...Where is the website with all the data on the opposition to their project or are you just acting on another strong hunch supported by your extensive ratable knowledge?
Have you spent much time looking at Cheshire's Grand List? There's quite a few ratables there. I bet you couldn't name the top ten.
Anon 10:35
Once again a comment on ratables. Your approach is like government's when it comes to the budget. You always talk about the increase and how we pay for that. But it's all about the loaf not the extra crumbs. Control the spending and the ratables will flourish...all of them; households, businesses and manufacturers.
Was Miller wrong? The mall was not approved? Or given an extention? No Schrumm lied and always lies because he knows better than the rest of us what we want and need.
The state of Ct does own land in the interchange zone, on the east side of rt 10 and north of 691. They do not own any in the 109 acres that W/C is proposing to develop.
Miller was dead wrong in leading people to believe interchange zone plan today allows retail. We are talking about today, not 20 years ago. Call P&Z if you don't believe it and stop grinding your hate ax on Shrumm.
Miller should check his facts before he goes on attack and should apologize to Shrumm and all the other people that he mislead.
The approval of this W/C proposal is just like Iraq. Feed the public manufactured information, don't question anything your told, don't think for yourself, approve it and attack anyone against it. The result can be the same, a disaster.
schrumm said
For five decades, the town has repeatedly voted to keep retail development out of the north end... the longstanding prohibition against retail
Schrumm, Hall, White, Ateri and the rest of them all have their own version.
I really love the people who claim to be high-minded on this board and then when somebody tries to engage them in a discussion of the issues that doesn't involve calling people who are against the W/S plan "cavemen," the same people who claim to know what is best for the town revert to the same name calling they whine about.
Hey anon 7:51 a.m.: Ever heard of the idea of metaphors? And yes I can name a great many major commercial taxpayers in Cheshire: Bozutos, Alexion, Whole Foods, BAE Systems, AT&T, Federated Corp., Pratt & Whitney, to name a few.
Anon 8 a.m: It is naive to think that spending can be controlled enough to keep people from being priced out of Cheshire, sooner rather than later. Look at this year as an example. Tonw Council keep mil rate increase to under the rate of inflation and voila, the state income tax rate looks like its going to increase. As long as some state and umicipal employyes have biding arbitration - something the average citizen doesn't - keeping spending down is a matter where there will be more losses rather than victories.
By the way, anon 8 a.m., your theory bears a remarkable resemblance to Reganomics and we all know what happened there.
Oh and by the way, for anyone who cares, Madsion's median family income is $101,297, nearly $11,000 higher than Cheshire, according to the 2001 census.
The anti group lies and continues to lie. Why is that necessary?
All the pro group has asked is for P&Z to listen to the propsal. The facts are clear. Just listen.
Lets face it the anti group headed by Schrumm has been thrown out of power by the Democrats and they have no issues to run on. They seem to find themselves in a position of no power and no real issues so they make them up as theiy go along
The following comment about an anti-group was submitted by a person that will profit at the expense of Cheshire.
The anti group lies and continues to lie. Why is that necessary?
The people against this gift to the local developers are only concerned with the well being of Cheshire. People that were against the Iraq war were called names too, but you now know who the liars are. So when you don't have any real facts to argue, you name call. Grow up. If you want to post something, post facts if you can recognize them.
And, as for Shrumm, the town should thank him for his initial effort to kill this disaster. The people on the TC who voted on this either didn't understand what could happen or didn't want to take the time to think. In either case. the made huge mistake.
A disaster? Because you don't want it? Beacuse it was not your idea? Becasue someone may make money? What is the real reason?
The person that keeps writing that the P&Z wants it. Where are you getting your info? I hope that is your wish , because I don't believe they have said that publicly. If they have. I missed something?
This will change Cheshire, but we need some change, it is about time.
Change just for change. People have their heads somewhere but where I don't know. I don't have a problem with change but it should be a benefit. I can go shopping wherever I want now but the way the price of gas is going it should be in my back yard. I guess I should sell my four bedroom house in Cheshire and buy into the condo next to the shopping center. Have they said what the prices are going to be? Wait that's what I moved away from to begin with. Decisions. Decisions.
What an inovative idea. Let's be like the others and build shopping centers. Someone had that idea 20 or 30 years ago. It was not feasible then and certainly not now if someone does their homework. How come Wallingford is building more commercial and industrial right down RT68? Think about people.
Whole foods vs 300 or 400 Apartments. Which was better for the town? We waited and got a good fit. Let's not rush and regret it later. Something will come along. We have a great reputation. Don't ruin it for a quick buck.
"W/S DEVELOPMENT" the movie
How a stanger comes to town and bullies the citizens of Cheshire.
starring
The hired gun......Toni Fazzoni
The P&Z Board......
Got to go will finish later..
Having some fun.
This is getting heavy. Let's take a deep breath. Life is short.
Paul Bowman only wanted 200 rental units for the site that Whole Foods is on. When he was turned down by the town, he took Cheshire, his neighbors to court. That show a lot about how much he cares about the rest of us. Will he take Cheshire to court again if this gets turned down?
Rumor has it that the Democrats are pushing this project. Why it is hard to understand, but Justin Adinofi, a Democrat was on the Planning and Zoning Commission before he was on the Town Council. After he left the Town Council, the Town council gave him a $20,000 contract to work on a town strategic plan.
Justin is a main proponent for changing the Interchange zoning to allow retail and residential. He is also a main proponent, appears to be like a point man, for the W/S retail/residential proposal.
He is the one that ran petitions for the Shopping Center at Stop and Shop and later told the Planning and Zoning Commission that from his scant petition results, 400 signatures, that the people of Cheshire overwhelmingly want the shopping center. Many of these signers were real estate people or didn't really know what they were signing. He said that people were lined up to sign it. Did you ever see people lined up to sign a petition? What do you think motivated these people? Who was Justin working for when he ran the petitions.
Is Justin still working for the Town Council?
Is Justin working for W/S?
Was the council influenced by the fact that Justin was a past council person? Will the Planning and Zoning Commission be more influenced by a past council person and past member of the Planning and Zoning Commission than by other Cheshire residents?
anon 7:14 One thing is for certain and what 99% of the people don't know is that if this text change goes forward he would win this time. He knows it but the sleepy citizens just see sugar plums(Life Style Center) in their dreams. WAKE THE HELL UP..before the 5/7 meeting.
anon 12:57
The anti-group as you called them are presenting facts and informing the people. Look at the public meetings. The pro-shoppers as I like to call them have no idea about the text change. They only go up and said this is great plan. What plan? It can change daily. The plan your are now being presented will not be the plan you will get. They did it in Canton. What makes us different. Just because we are CHESHIRE. "SHOW ME THE $$$$$$" as one agent said. Cheshire be very careful and look around..
As it has been pointed out Madison is not Cheshire - for many reasons. Madison residents care about the character of their town. Their property values are higher than Cheshire's because they don't allow just any development. As was stated Cheshire's yearly income is less than Madison's and many Cheshire residents are "middle class living beyond their means". So how are we going to support "high end" stores? It has already been pointed out that this will not increase our tax base due to the increase in services. So where is this going to be a benefit to Cheshire residents?
Anon 5:19 p.m:
What commercial and industrial in Wallingford are you talking about? If you're thinking of what was the Mortgage Lenders complex, stop and consider this: Wallingford had to offer them loads of incentives and the state Department of Economic and Community Development had to give them $4 million in low interest state loans. If somebody was giving that to W/S, all the people who are against the lifestyle center would be marcging on Town Hall and Hartford with pitchforks and flaming torches looking for the first poltician they could find.
The much of the major new development in Wallingford is - you guessed it - retail. BJ's Warehouse, Lowes. And you don't hear any of the humble citizens of Wallingford talking about these retailers like their the Anti Christ. Some of you folks who are against W/S like to act like you're really informed. But if Anon 5:19 p.m. is typical of your group, you're not as informed as you think you are.
This is getting a bit trite
Side one: W/S is the greatest thing since delivery pizza. Build it now because shopping it peachy keen. Plan , shmans, doesn't matter. why worry if we haven't tapped out our plastic. And only antique reactionaries could be against the project.
Side two: Build anything reselbing retail on the site and Cheshire will turn into the NJ Meadowlands. Sure, no one's built on the site for twenty years, but we can wait twenty more instead of letting some businessmen make money. We should be like a snob town like Madison which no one can afford and had to cut their school budget. Yep, let rezone for McMansions there...
it's sad to see this sort of "debate"
10:40 PM
Why create this sort of debate? Tim's blog is loaded with town matters that usually attract very little attention and debate from a broad section of the town. All of this may be no less important but the W/S proposal has struck a chord. It is serious and regardless how the sides take shape it is a debate that should take place. It's not about plastic, tax incentives, MacMansions or class warfare. It's a debate about two very different visions for this community by folks who are now taking a very serious look at their community for better or worse.
Go Cheshireites. Debate the heck out of this.
anon 12;28
I don't see serious debate. I see pro-development arguments sounding like vapid valley girls and anti-development arguments sounding like haughty snobs jealous of Calgagni and Bowman
Why do the anti people lie as much as they do, just present facts. Although their leader David Schrumm has been a lied since the day he was elected to the council, so I am sure that they are just letting him lead.
I hope the shoppes are bilt and that all the 400 acres be big box stores the bigger better. Nobody cares about that part of town anyway, nobody lives there. I want Walmart, target, dollar stores, closeout stores and lots of restaurents. We could use Taco Bell, Kentucky Colonel, Ruby Tuesdays and a lot more. The restaurents in Cheshire are to expensive. Cheshire could be the biggest shopping center in the state with people coming from all over. This will put Cheshire on the map.
10:20PM Have you seen the area in Wallingford where BJ's, Lowes (with a Home Depot across the street) looks like. God help us all if this is the vision for Cheshire!
9:58AM WHAT A HORRIBLE THOUGHT! Apparently you care nothing about this town so why don't you move to a town that has what you want.
NO ONE HAS PROPOSED THOSE STORES OR SUGGESTED THAT ANYONE WANTS THEM.
FEAR AND LIES SHOULD NOT HAVE A PLACE IN THIS DEBATE.
I HOPE THIS PASSES SO YOU NUTS HAVE TO SEE IT EVERYDAY!!!!!!
You seem so knowledgeable, a real deep thinker. Since you know what stores they don't propose, Mr. Professor of Urban Sprawl. what are the stores they propose. You don't have a clue do you. Do you know anything?
10:43AM GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!!
Read 10:20PM and 10:58AM. It's not the opponents talking about Target, Walmart, BJ's and Lowes its's the proponents.
Sorry it was 10:20PM and 9:48AM
I CAN'T WAIT TO SHOP, HAVE DINNER AND SEE A MOVIE ALL IN CHESHIRE.
I HOPE ALL OF YOU COME TO TERMS WITH THIS.
YOU ALL MUST HAVE TRIED TO STOP STOP & SHOP THAT WORKED WELL.
WITH SCHRUMM AS YOUR LEADER FAILURE IS YOUR ONLY OPTION.
If Schrumm is your leader you need to do one of two things-surrender your army and hope for decent treatment of the POW;s or frag your leader and hope you get a better leader.
It will be great to have a movie theatre and rest. and shoppes and coffee houses and book shops. This will add to the beauty of Cheshire and the people who move in will love it. By jove if we get this I will jump for joy!!!!!!!!!!!!11
When this goes in, the Democrats will be able to take all the credit. We need to totally develop the northend and there are a lot more parts of the route 10 that can be developed. We need the Walmarts, Target, Dick's and all the other stores you find in the first class shopping malls. It will put Cheshire on the map. Get used to it, it's a done deal.
May 02, 2007 1:06:00 PM
I CAN'T WAIT TO SHOP, HAVE DINNER AND SEE A MOVIE ALL IN CHESHIRE.
You going to be shopping, to dinner and the movies with your leaders Bowman, Calcagni and Justin. Now that's a set of leaders. Which one do you work for?
Three guys who have done a lot or a loser who has done nothing, I'll take those three, thank you.
Sounds like the proponents for shopping and eating and sleeping and shopping some more are off their meds again. They make such a compelling case for shopping I cant imagine why all the stores around town aren't already jammed.
It's curious they have time to sit at a computer and read all this stuff. How come they're not out shopping? Maybe they shop on line.
3:44
I thought you probably had all the losers identified...at least half the town must qualify using your objective standards. Or would you say it is only Mr. Schrumm?
9:58 With all those shops you're hoping go in, let's hope there's a Sylvan Learning Center there too. You might be interested in that for yourself.
3:44PM - YOU!!!!!!!
Enjoy the Cheshire Herald this week!!!!
I can't believe that people for this project can honestly believe that saying how great Target, Walmart, Lowes, BJ's is going to help your cause. Anyone living in this town who really cares about Cheshire is going to run as fast as they can from supporting you!
I can't believe that people for this project can honestly believe that saying how great Target, Walmart, Lowes, BJ's is going to help your cause.
I have never heard anyone, expect you, say that the stores listed above were part of this project. No one wants those stores, no one. And they won't be part of this project.
reply to 4:55:00 PM
What are you talking about that these stores will never be part of this project. What project do you mean and how would you know. Your not only for the W/S, you work for them. If you know, why shouldn't P&Z, the Town Council, Economic Development Commission and the people of Cheshire know. Are you the one that is making all the pro posts, that you can't wait to eat there, shop there. Why don't you just move to Mix Ave.
Now you say Target, Walmart, lowes and BJ's will not be there. You know nothing of the remaining 300 acres and I would bet that they will be there. Justin, tell your bosses to stop the smoke and mirrors.
The tar is getting warm and the feathers will be arriving soon.
You really should not believe everything that David Schrumm tells you. You must be smarter than that? Someday I will buy you dinner at a new resturant in the North End and you can tell me how you finally figured out that he is a lied to you, don't feel bad you won't be the first.
Did he tell you that too, there is no dike. You are a joke.
This blog is useless.
What do you all think the P&Z will decide?
4:55PM You way no one in support of this project wants these stores. Well read 10:20PM and 9:58AM.
It's interesting how people like to call others liars. Well here's one for you - in the Herald today Fazzone says that the whole 400 acres is not affected by this change - LIE!!!
This proposal only affects the 100 acres but there is nothing to stop a developer from coming in later and requesting a change for the remaining 300 acres and then some. His argument will be that we made the change once and it should be made again. And you know what! HE'LL TAKE THE TOWN TO COURT AND HE WILL WIN!
I just burned my W/S insert graciously provided to me by my hometown paper. I know I contributed to air pollution (don't get made at me Tim) but it was worth it. This B---S--- is much more than I can handle. We were told by P&Z that no pictures were to be allowed at public hearings. I hope that the P&Z members don't look at theirs. If they did, will this influence their decision? The citizens of Chehire should demand a -MISTRIAL...
Let's put rumors to rest here. David Schrumm is not the head of a group often mentioned on this blog. We know the proponents use his name often just to use a name. Again, he is not our leader. Sorry. We are many. No name. No money. No financial benefit from proposal. All ages and residents of Cheshire from months to 50+ years. We are concerned for the future of Cheshire plain and simple. We are trying to encourage all citizens to get informed and involved.
The Cheshire Herald this week had an informative flyer put out by the developers. It doesn't matter if you are pro or con against the project, it's interesting to read, even if it is only the developers point of view. This was the first time I really saw a map of the proposed plan. I'm not really sure how I feel about it. I just want to hear both sides before forming an opinion.
Who would like to meet me for dinner in about two years at one of the new resturants in the North End?
2:29 You seem to have trouble spelling. Are you sure you'll be able to read the menu?
He/she certainly can't read the text change.
Yes. You can take all of Cheshire because of all the profit you will make. Good luck I will pass.
Boy the insert looked great, why are people against this? I will try to bring my friends to meeting I think that we need to show our support.
Does anyone have a copy of the flyer prepared for Canton residents before their PZC approved their WS proposal?
Remember, WS held the Canton commission over a barrel when they claimed their initial plan as approved wasn't feasable and a super market-Shaws and big box-Kohls (biggest one I've ever seen) was ultimately added to the development.
Note the glossy photos don't show Shaws or Kohls. This is a slick presentation from a slick group of savey developers.
I thought the presentation in the CH flyer was pretty nice. BTW what's wrong with Kohl's? We have to shop somewhere, why not here at home? Remember how "SUPER" Stop and Shop scared everyone, what's the big deal now. Cheshire has close to 30,000 people. It's not the little farm town of the 1940's. The north end is away from the most of the town, let something happen that we all can utilize. The condos? lets see maybe , they will be an affordable place where young people can live to stay in Cheshire. Most of us after getting out of school can't afford to even live in our own hometown.
9:38PM You can't be serious thinking this is going to be housing that kids out of college can afford. You sound a gullable a Tim who thought the housing would be apartments over the stores. Wake Up!!
9:38 -
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Kohls. And the market has spoken...they are popular and in evry gig town touching Cheshire.
It's the upscale nonsense these dolts keep pushing. And retail jobs, while plentiful, are not typically high paying jobs. This is complicated stuff and there is no right answer but I look at retail consentration as a principle source for my concern. Macys now owns Filenes...they consolidate and close many overlapping stores. Dicks come it. Everywhere there is a Dicks. Retail is too concentrated and a shake out is inevitible and what town wins? Its a crap shoot but lots of vacant retail space is no better than vacant factory space except the parking lots are a lot bigger and they're usually on your main streets.
Yes a landlord still pays the taxes but it becomes a blight. Did you know that a Walmart will often rebuild a bigger-better store and vacate the smaller store then continue to pay the taxes and the rent on a vacant property just to keep a Target out of town? This isn't some urban legend. Its a hard reality about competition. Do we want to be in every fight for retail dollars when the only thing we really have to consider is getting in our cars and deciding which neighboring town we want to shop in? Remember stores don't pay income taxes to towns so the tax dollars washout with associated municipal costs for new services.
Fazzone is dead wrong and the flyer is 100% correct. The text change affects the entire 400 acres and that is the issue now before the P&Z. They cannot just change the text for a part of the interchange zone. If this text change passes, it then allows W/S to file a project development plan which conforms to the new text change that now allows housing and retail.
If the text change is approved, then others in the 400 acre zone can file development projects for retail and residential. If P&Z turns their project down, then they can go to court and the court would most likely side against the town.
If you don't believe Fazzone is wrong, the developer's lawyer, get an opinion from the Town Attorney, he should have already addressed this subject.
Another reason to question Fazzone's expertise is the fact that he owns property in the Interchange Zone.
The only other explanation is that the reporter got it all mixed up.
Another flyer item that he says is wrong is that no one is proposing big box stores. Maybe they are not in the W/S proposal, he knows what is in the W/S proposal, but the public doesn't. And,nobody knows or has an idea what can happen in the other 300 acres. He says that W/S is asking for stores in excess of 50,000 sq ft and he says this may perhaps be 70,000 sq ft. Well this is the first time anyone heard a figure, but it is not a firm figure, it is a perhaps figure. More smoke.
Now Mr. Fazzone does not say anything about building heights over 65 ft, nor does he say why they need buildings over 6 stories. How high is over 65 ft? Perhaps 70 ft? or 500 ft. Are there going to be 20 story apartment building? Let us in on the secrets.
So, in the future the Cheshire Herald should base their stories on people who are impartial and can provide accurate facts and they should not print false accusations that mislead the public.This sounds like Iraq supports that attack anyone that differs with them. The Herald should have asked the town attorney, that's what his job is.
If we have "affordable garden apartments" in 2008 we will have tenements in ten years time.
Putting in a Kohl's or a Dick's is no big deal. A housing project is far more threatening
Ever since Dawn left the Herald has been a simple mouthpiece for whatever special interest group they happen to bump into. They should do a little "both sides" reporting before drinking the cool aid from just one side.Whatever happened to "investigative reporting".
Whatever happened to doing expose's on what is REALLY happening. How about starting with who REALLY owns the property in the various sections of the north end and let's see who really stands to make millions.
Fazzone has been the hired gun for the developers for the last 35 years. He will not be happy until the last square inch of open space in Cheshire is paved over. I will never understand why a guy who grew up here and who has made millions off this town can't see that he is fouling his own nest. Sad. Its all about the money.
The flyer in today's Herald was classic "Hype".
Where were the pictures of the backs of the stores....the parts that will face out toward Rt 10 and I-691? You know....with the dumpsters and the seagulls.....
Where are the pictures of the vast parking lots that surround these complexes?
How about a snappy shot of the traffic on Route 10?
How about a shot of some of our VOLUNTEER firefighters dealing with the car wrecks up on 10 and 691 when all that extra traffic comes to our "lifestyle" center?
Or maybe a picture of the new policemen that we will hire for that extra patrol route in the North end......and don't forget the extra detective that we will hire (as Canton did) to deal with the bad checks, credit card fraud and shplifting (not ALL the "highend shoppers" coming to a 500,000 sq ft mall will be honest! Or will they?
We are being sold the sleeves off our vests...
The Cheshire Herald is a rag newspaper. It takes all of 5 minutes to read anything of interest, the rest is junk. If they don't start doing a better job their building is going to be vacant.
Just how stupid does SRWeiner think we are?
He is going to build a "riverwalk trail"? A trail to where? the next parking lot?
Quick folks...when was the last time you traveled to a shopping center to walk on a nature trail....never? Duh.
As for "entertainment"...take a close look at what came out in the Herald. That is a typical "megaplex" theatre..6...maybe 8 screens.....so what? Just another huge parking lot with expensive tickets and mindless crap on the screen. These places are CLOSING down around the state because movie attendance has declined. Why do you think the one in Southington is selling out? Because they have a full house every night?
The fools in town think Weiner is giving us a Shubert or Carnegie Hall...get real folks.....
Fazzone was his fuzzy, obfuscating self in the Herald. There WILL be box type stores...Weiner said at one of their presentations that they HAVE TO HAVE these stores near by (or in their complexes)to "draw" foot traffic (actually car traffic) to the general area. In Canton they sold the town on the cute, "high end" stores (see todays flyer in the Herald) and then when the bulldozers started pushing dirt they came back to the Canton P&Z and threatened to withdraw if they didn't get some extra "boxes"...Shaws and Kohls. (Canton just beat back a Targets across the street in the same area).
One other thing to remember.....THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT ANY OF THESE STORES WILL BE "HIGH END"......
Once the "retail" regs are written, ANY retailer can come in. A property owner has an UNDENIABLE RIGHT to build what the EXISTING regulations allow at the time he buys the property. Regulations follow the land....no matter who owns it. Weiner could get the approval for Calcagni and Bowman (the real property owners) and then could back out of the deal. C& B would then be free to bring in a strip mall with Payless Shoes, All for a Dollar and maybe an Ocean State Job Lot thrown in for all those "high end shoppers" from Cheshire. That's a fact folks. That's the way the law works. Watch the bait and switch....it could happen before your very eyes.
There is simply NO compelling reason to "go retail" in the north end. Why open this Pandora's box?
ANSWER TO 11:01:00 PM
w/s KEEP SAYING RESIDENTIAL IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT TO THEM.
I believe them. I think it is important to Calcagni and Bowman. Bowman was turned down over the 200 rentals on E. Johnson. Looks like he's back again.
W/S has kept saying they weren't sure whether rental or retail. I'll bet rental. Easiler to fill, long paying, easy to raise rents, then convert to condos and make a killing later. Good business plan. Let the taxpayers pay for the schooling and laugh all the way to the bank. Ha, Ha, Ha,....
Why can't we keeping submiting letters to P&Z? Just because Lisa Murphy was quoted in the Herald. Let's hear from the town Attorney. This whole process stinks. W/S can print flyers of who knows what and we as citizens must be quiet. I think not. Keep writing and asking questions. Attend meetings when P&Z deliberates this very important change to our Zoning laws. They are public meetings and anyone can attend.Call the Town Hall for times and dates. Should be fun.
anon 2:26 You are 100% right. Get more information, make a decision by 5/7 and speak at the meeting or write a letter to P&Z. This is your last chance. Look on web sites re: sprawl. This is what the "Antigroup" (as we are refered as by some people on this blog) hoped we could do.Get you to investigate the issue and take action. Thanks and good luck.
No matter how P&Z votes on this issue, it's important to vote all the supporter of this W/S out of office.
We need people who have long range visions for this town and have family values.
Smart Growth is when a business pays taxes and it costs the town very little in support services.
The Town Council, Economic Development Commission, Town Manager and Chamber of Commerce have chosen Dumb Growth.
Lisa Murphy and Atty Fazzone are more right than wrong on this then you think. The zone text change, if approved, allows a developer to request a special overlay zone which permits the mixed use.
Officials and the applicant will state that the hurdles are so high that the entire 400 acre zone could never get such an overlay status. That being said. The question being asked could be, Is this overlay zone tailormade for WS and therefore not an illegal spot zone development?
Please don't knock the hardworking, underappreciated folks in townhall and the Cheshire Herald for that matter. Look at it this way. At the very least they are contributing to your motivational therapy issues.
We don't need an opinion from the town atty either on public testomony. None can be officially seen, sought or heard after the close of a public hearing 5/7. That is the law...not a town policy decision.
I don't think Fazzone owns property in the Northend. I remember reading that the Islander East folks bought that piece last year.
I heard that P&Z is planning on limiting public input on Monday. They want time to ask questions. So the public's time to talk will be limited.
Fazzone or LLC. The gas people are paying them . Some sort of lease option. Check it out. This whole process needs investigation. Madison's Attorney who happened to sit on our last meeting gave opinion before decision? Why? You can read it on "www.noHEDS06443.com".
We don't need more motivation. We are over the hill and on the way down. Watch out W/S gang.
Maybe the Town of Cheshire is protecting itself? Lot's of problems on the property. Yes, Cheshire will not let humans disturb its beauty.
In Answer to Friday, May 04, 2007 8:09:00 AM
your question is perfect and the answer is clear. Is there a contest to see how many times they can fool the public. There is no protection against developing the remaining 300 acres in a similar manner. The court would laugh thier head off about this protection. Why would anyone listen to Fazzone? His client is W/S not the Cheshire public.
Let's have Fazzone answer the following.
1. Does he own land in the Interchange Zone and how much.
2. They are asking for a building size of over 65 ft. How high is that? 20 stories? Exactly how high do they want the building size and why do they they need something that high. Say exactly what use requires that height. Is it for apartments, hotels, condos?
They are requesting a building size over 50,000 sq ft, What is it and don't say perhaps 70,000. What is it exactly.
In answer to their hard work. Hard work is not necessarily good work. Bush says he is doing hard work and look how much worse things get.
And, to dispell Fazzone's biased misleading opinions we need a real legal opinion from the town attorney. And Fazzone should stick to being the attorney for W/S and stop making legal rulings to the Cheshire Herald reporter who gobbles up his every word.
How can you tell when a lawyer is lying?
A: His lips are moving.
-----------------------------------
Officials and the applicant will state that the hurdles are so high that the entire 400 acre zone could never get such an overlay status. That being said. The question being asked could be, Is this overlay zone tailormade for WS and therefore not an illegal spot zone development?
Nobody knows that Bowman and Calcagni own the property that W/S wants to build their strip mall on. They love working under the cover of darkness. And, nobody has thought that Bowman and Calcagni are the ones really interested in building the residential. W/S doesn't build residential.
W/S lies. Attorney Fazzone lies. People wake up. That glossy picture they show you is only the front and center and not the big box stores on either end. Ask them. If you believe this is going to be only cute stores I have a bridge to sell you. By the way have you seen the size of the parking lot at the new Home Depot in Southington? Imaging that is for only one store.
School Disruption on The Horizon
---------------------------------
If you believe W/S that their proposed 160 unit housing development will only add no more than 30 students to the school system, then you have been drinking their Cool Aid or smoking something.
They say that they, most likely Calcagni, will be marketing the rental units to empty nesters and newly weds without children. Isn't this a discriminatory practice? To further make us relax, they say they will ask P&Z to limit the residential to two bedrooms. Do you think they will really ask for a 2 bedroom limit and is that legal. Assume they do limit units to 2 bedrooms. Would that prevent a builder, most likely a local developer, not W/S since they have never done residential, from building units with 2 bedrooms that also have a large kitchen, dining room, family room, exercise room, study, large walk-in closets, office, computer room and whatever. Now nobody would change one of those other rooms to a bedroom, would they? I know a realtor would never say, that this room is large enough to be a bedroom. Theoretically we could have up to 11 or more rooms in an apartment. Do you think Cheshire should have Bedroom Police who make sure people are sleeping only in bedrooms?
Because of the Cheshire's good school system, could there be up to 2 children, on average, in a unit or up to 320 children for 160 units. And, what about the other 300 acres, another 960. It's between 30 and 960 children.
You don't build schools overnight. I guess you would have to redistrict to spread the chidren equally across the school system so that the larger classes are not all in the schools close to the northend. Better quality of schooling? No effect on the education budget? Lower taxes?
Win, win? Are they selling the Cheshire school system for profit while the children and taxpayers pay the cost?
What did the school board say about all this? They shouldn't get involved at this time. Forward thinking? Planning for the future educational needs of our children?
No need for impact studies of the entire 400 acre zone before it's changed?
Could the above happen? We don't know and W/S doesn't know either, but a reliable impact study would help us have a more realistic idea. And, the school board should start making contingency plans and projections of costs.
Good points. Florio is adding 4 new teachers this year with a lower budget than he asked for. How does he do it? Smoke and mirrors. Maybe he's planning for the future influx? Last I heard our student population was declining. The problem with adding more teachers when we don't truly need them is we pay dearly in future tax increases. I rather see the money spent on supplies , equipment, pcs etc. for the students. This will help them and can be monitored.
Maybe we should save the land next to the prison for a new school or firehouse and not ballfields? If we get $1m or $2/year as Justin " MR. WHAT"S BEST FOR CHESHIRE" quoted in the MRJ from this proposal it would take 20- 30 years without interest to recoup the cost of building the school or firehouse. This is a win win for the town we are told. I think not.
This topic is hot! Look at all the comments. Hope all these people show up on Monday 5/7.
You all nuts, maybe someday we could meet for dinner at a new place along the river?
Where at TONY'S in Southington?
Justin is much smarter than you, trust me!!!
Now we have Milone and McBroom in support of the project that will extend Queens street to Cheshire. They hosted a meeting at their office for W/S and some of their supporters. It certainly sound unethical for them to have such a cozy relationship with this developer, especially when they do so much engineering work for the town.
Guess they have been bought by W/S and will do their bidding.
They should be prevented from doing any impact study work as their close relationship makes any results they come up with suspect.
This whole thing stinks . Why did many of the people and I will not mention names get so defensive when speaking tonight at the P&Z meeting. If they had nothing to hide why bring it up? Now it makes me wonder..
They say that nothing has happened in this zone. Maybe Bowman and Calcagni should have gotten a realtor that really wanted to sell the property to a conforming buyer instead of seeking a zone change. But, I'm sorry, there is a lot more money in zone changes.
Post a Comment