Here are the minutes to one part of the Jan 17 Personnel Committee meeting. It's fairly long, so I've only skimmed over the minutes so far. Nonetheless, I found the discussion to be quite interesting:
MINUTES OF THE CHESHIRE TOWN COUNCIL PERSONNEL COMMITTEE MEETING HELD ON THURSDAY, JANUARY 17, 2008 AT 7:30 P.M. IN ROOM 207, TOWN HALL, 84 SOUTH MAIN ST., CHESHIRE CT 06410
Present
Chairman Matthew Altieri; Committee members Laura DeCaprio and Thomas Ruocco. Council member James Sima.
Staff: Town Manager Michael A. Milone; Personnel Director Louis Zullo; Town Clerk Carolyn Soltis.
1. ROLL CALL
The clerk called the roll and a quorum of the Personnel Committee was determined to be present.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The group Pledged Allegiance to the Flag.
3. PROPOSED LIAISON COMMITTEE
Chairman Altieri reported that Councilor Sima had recommended the formation of a Liaison Committee of the Town Council.
Copies of information on reasons and roles of a Liaison Committee were distributed to the committee members and staff present.
Town Manager Milone advised he made copies of the Board of Education (BOE) contract which speaks to this issue. He further advised the committee that Labor Attorney Floyd Dugas was contacted regarding formation of a Liaison Committee, and his response was distributed to the committee. The proposed policy and legal response were read by the committee members.
Councilor Sima explained his reasons for bringing the concept of a Liaison Committee of the Town Council, stating it was not to broker agreements between the town’s bargaining units, but to get a better sense of what is going on in the Town of Cheshire, at the Council level by the people working for the Town. It would provide new ideas and help the Town Council members with discussions about what is going on during their tenure. This same vehicle was used by the BOE; there were 3 or 4 meetings of the Liaison Committee annually; and issues arose before they became a problem. During the time this committee met there were no major labor issues on the BOE, and BOE members would go back and talk to staff about situations and rectifying any that were discussed at the meetings. The BOE was able to see better ways to implement curriculum.
Mr. Sima said there are ways to bring this same vehicle to the Town Council side. If there is room for growth or change in town government, the Council should be aware of this before a major issue comes forward.
Regarding membership on this committee, Mr. Altieri asked who would be included, i.e. the Town Manager, Town Council members, town employees.
At the BOE level, Mr. Sima advised that the committee included the Assistant Superintendent of Schools, members of different bargaining groups (particularly teachers), because the committee dealt with many curriculum issues.
There are town issues which would be dealt with, and Mr. Sima said the membership could include 3 or 4 Council members sitting on the committee and having a better awareness of what is going on.
On the BOE level, Mr. Sima reported that the committee never made any formal comments which would interest any of the bargaining units. The committee was a vehicle to bring information to the full BOE, and he sees this committee doing the same thing on the Council level.
Ms. DeCaprio expressed concern about the issues raised in the response from Attorney Dugas. She could see the committee not being a formal vehicle of the Town Council, but the interpretation of what the committee is, and what it is, are two different things. Some of these concerns bear some thought, and any such conversation would constitute bargaining history Just because the committee is not thought of as a formal vehicle, the Council cannot necessarily look at it, and say the conversations were looked at as being informal. This is putting some things out there that could be construed differently than the Council wants.
Under the Town Manager/Town Council form of government, Ms. DeCaprio said that much of what the committee would discuss or address is being handled by the Town Manager’s office.
According to Mr. Ruocco, this is committee is nothing more than a suggestion box, and is a way for employees to voice suggestions to the Council, and it gives the Council the opportunity to hear a different aspect of the way the town is being run. Mr. Ruocco sees this suggestion box for employees to bring ideas and suggestions directly to the Council, giving a different perspective on how the town operates, and provide a grass roots input to town operations. He did not see this as a permanent committee, and it could be set up as a temporary committee on a pilot basis with a start and end date.
As for the makeup of this committee, Mr. Ruocco sees 3 Council members, one of whom would be chairman. There should be some parameters set, i.e. no entertainment of labor issues, and discussions limited to operations of the town. Mr. Ruocco believes town employees should feel comfortable with Town Manager Milone on labor disputes. For non-union employees, it could be different, but union and non-union groups seem to run on parallel standards. Mr. Ruocco stated he is opposed to forming this Liaison Committee, but the Council should not jump into it, and it should be considered a pilot committee to see the reaction among employees.
For a better understanding of the suggestion for a Liaison Committee of the Town Council, Town Manager Milone said that the natural reaction on his part is whether there is evidence of a problem that has to be addressed. He presumes that the genesis of this is a perception that something could be done differently or better, and it is in reaction to something Mr. Sima observed for something that was stated to him.
In response, Mr. Sima said “no” it was nothing like that, and this perception does not exist. This is why he brought the suggestion forward as soon as he got on the Council so this perception would not exist. His idea came up because of his 8 years on the BOE, and coming to another part of town government, and he believes it would be useful for the Council.
Mr. Milone asked if the intention of Mr. Sima was to make this institutionalized and mandatory as the committee exists in the BOE teacher’s contract.
Mr. Sima said “no”.
Town Manager Milone explained what is taking place on the town government side on communication with and for town employees. A lot of time has been spent in the last 5 to 8 years, going to great lengths, to expand communication opportunities for town staff. The staff knows that if there is an issue which they want to present to the Town Council, they can do so, during the Public Communications portion of the agenda. Mr. Milone advised that the Police Department availed themselves of this on one occasion.
Mr. Milone stated he believes the Town Council’s Personnel Committee functions in this capacity, and it has in the past with retirees seeking redress of things. The Personnel Committee is the place for employee issues or concerns to be addressed, and this is the role of this committee, outside of employee’s having direct contact with the Town Manager and his staff on personnel issues. At this time there are certain avenues which people can pursue.
Mr. Milone further stated that under bullet point #2 in Mr. Sima’s information, it says “Employees will be able to communicate directly with Council without filtering by administration”. This is a judgment, suggesting that Mr. Milone is filtering information, and he said he does not operate that way. If people have a grievance and they want to go around him, they can do so. This bullet statement suggests there is a process to change the nature or extent of a recommendation or complaint. If there is, Mr. Milone said he would like to know about this. In his 8 years, Mr. Milone said this has not been a problem. When he saw the word “filtering” it implies the fact that the Council is not getting a complete and total representation of facts where there are situations involving employees. This is a concern to Mr. Milone, who said this has not been the case, and it is contrary to the charge that he has as Town Manager.
Mr. Sima stated that the did not write this as a bullet point saying that the Town Manager was filtering information. He used the word “filter” to mean Mr. Milone taking all the viewpoints of the entire operation of the town, and putting a little of what he sees as he transfers this information to the Council. Mr. Sima commented on one piece of information being taken, and by the time it gets around the table, it has changed somewhat because everyone’s eyes are a little different. He said he wanted to hear from the horse’s mouth…this is what the people at the lower level/working level of government thinks, and it comes to the Council without any changing in the wording of the situation.
It was stated by Mr. Sima that he is not saying the Town Manager is trying to deceive or change what is actually going on. It is just the way people transfer data, as it actually becomes different as it is brought forward from one person to another. Mr. Sima said he is getting the perception that he wanted this committee to go around or bypass the Town Manager, when his idea was to have government be a little more open in the Town of Cheshire.
Again, Mr. Milone said it suggests to him that there is a problem and we need to address it. If there is a problem, it is incumbent on the Personnel Committee to tell him about the concerns and ways he should improve his communication skills.
Mr. Milone stated that one of the cornerstones of his goals and objectives is expand communication efforts to enhance citizen awareness of and involvement in town government. Another goal is to enhance the effectiveness of the staff to insure the highest level of customer service. Key to both of these is communication.
In order to improve communication, there has been expansion of technology so that people in this government are well informed about what is going on. Mr. Milone said there are innumerable meetings. He meets with the Personnel Committee and establishes goals and objectives; these are filtered down to department heads; and, then to town employees.
Mr.Milone explained that this is unlike the BOE where there is no performance evaluations. About 75% of town employee groups undergo performance evaluations, with the exception of the police department. The bargaining units get step increases, whether they get a good evaluation or not. For people with 5 or 10 years of service who get an above average or extraordinary evaluation, they are given a bonus on top of this. This has forced the town to establish direct lines of communication on a regular basis with 75% of the employees.
Mr.Milone explained that employees meet annually for their evaluation, and in many cases meet semi-annually for a six-month assessment. As part of their evaluation, they sit and tell the supervisors what can be done better as an organization, and what can be done better as supervisors. The idea is to develop a dialogue with employees, to allow them to have an opportunity to tell the supervisors how operations can be done more efficiently and effectively.
In addition, the Town Manager meets with department heads monthly; good dialogue continues with them; there is encouragement to continue this dialogue with employees; and encourage feedback. Department heads have meetings with staff to encourage communication as well.
There is a monthly newsletter to the employees to keep them informed on what is important and what is happening. It encourages direct feedback to the Town Manager, Mr. Zullo, Ms. Talbot or Ms. Sepp.
The town administration started meetings with the executive boards of the unions with Mr. Zullo every three months so, just so things can be addressed such as responsiveness to the unions, dealing with issues before they become problems, etc. The town administration tries to encourage and foster communication in many ways.
The town has embarked on more in-service training for employees, giving them tools to tell the supervisors about how to run the departments they work in. These are all basically things that are consistent with what Mr. Milone has discussed with the Personnel Committee and the Council over the years, and they have endorsed them as good practices to continue to build on.
These things create a situation where it circumvents the idea of the CEO in the town’s form of government. Mr. Milone stated he is not sure a Liaison Committee would generate or derive a greater benefit than any of the ongoing programs he has mentioned at this meeting.
In the BOE, many years ago, there was a chasm between the Superintendent and the teacher’s union, and there was a need to create some sort of vehicle to improve the communication, and the Liaison Committee was the vehicle. Mr. Milone said he likes to think and hope that the town government has preempted this by all of these communication efforts and formalized processes that have been established so that kind of situation does not occur.
Mr. Sima stated it was not his goal or desire to circumvent the role of the Town Manager. He wanted a vehicle to improve his role and that of all the Council members in making decisions, and this committee would be another vehicle to become better informed on the operations of the town and how government in town can be improved.
Mr. Milone stated that this process could likely circumvent his role as Town Manager. It runs counter to the role of the chief executive.
In regard to the suggestion for a liaison committee, Mr. Milone suggested that Mr. Sima go through the town government’s budget process, which is thorough and exhaustive in evaluating what goes on in town departments. Mr. Milone explained that he talks about the operation of town government; department heads talk about the operation; department heads bring staff to discuss the operations; there is a dialogue with the Council members. This might give Mr. Sima a higher comfort level or sense of participation on the part of the people who work for the town in terms of the decision making and developing the ideas and priorities brought to the Council.
Regarding the town government budget process, Mr. Sima said he has only sat in the audience for budget meetings. His concern is that the only vehicle he knew was a subcommittee of the Council to do what he proposes. He is not trying to get information from department managers, but from the regular everyday employees which can be passed onto Council members. He wanted to open up his eyes to make sure he knew exactly what was going on, and it would be just another vehicle to do this.
Mr. Sima apologized to Town Manager Milone if he thought the goal was to circumvent the role of the town manager, when he just wanted a source of information to him and the other Council members.
According to Mr. Sima the liaison committee of the BOE was very beneficial when he was on it for a few years.
Mr. Milone commented on his understanding of how the BOE liaison committee worked…before anyone went to the BOE, the ideas were discussed with the Superintendent or Assistant Superintendent. Then, the Superintendent or Assistant Superintendent, along with those individuals, appeared before the BOE to discuss their situation. So, these people first had to go through the Superintendent’s office to discuss their suggestion. Mr. Milone asked if this was correct.
In response, Mr. Sima said he was never aware of any of that pre-discussion. He said there was usually 50% of the bargaining group that would come forward…the negotiating team…to the BOE liaison committee meetings. During the meetings, discussions would go off in tangents, and much information was received, with true issues stated and they were addressed by the BOE members.
Another point was made by Mr. Milone in that there is a dynamic on the landscape that exists in the BOE that is very different. The BOE has 400 people in one bargaining unit, and they are the heart and soul of what happens in the school system. The town government has 5 bargaining units, some with 5 members, and some with up to 45 members, and 50 non-union staff. It is very fragmented in that sense; there is a difference in the roles and responsibilities that people play.
Mr. Milone made the point that he does not know that simply looking at the BOE and trying to draw an analogous situation with the town can be a valid comparison. They are different in terms of the dynamic in the landscape that exists in the way the BOE and town do business.
Chairman Altieri commented on the fact that he has sat on both sides of this issue, and agreed that during meetings there were tangents which took place. His sense about the proposal of a liaison committee is that as far as staff or town employees having problems or issues…it really needs to start with their group at their own level, i.e. a Public Works Department driver talking about truck routes. Mr. Altieri noted that he knows nothing about truck routes…but Mr. Michaelangelo and Mr. Milone do…and such an issue should be handled at that level because this is where it can be fixed. To have the Council members hear about it, he is not sure the problem would be fixed. This is the Town Manager’s responsibility, and Mr. Altieri trusts that the town manager and department heads are the ones who address such issues on a daily basis, get good information, and deal with it.
Mr. Altieri said this is why town government has the town manager and department heads. For the Council to sit down and go face to face with employees and discuss issues…he would advise that employees talk to department heads or the town manager about what is going on in departments, the town, etc. He could see that the Council might gain some information, but this would be information gotten by meeting with department heads.
It was further stated by Mr. Altieri that the way town government is set up, the administration and supervisor’s job is to communicate, figure out what is going in a department, and how to operate it more efficiently. If they are not doing it very well, then the Town Manager will let them know this. If this were not to work well, from the Town Manager’s point of view, it would be discussed at the Personnel Committee level. Mr. Altieri does not see Town Council members getting involved in the problem solving process.
Mr. Ruocco commented on Councilors not knowing on things are going, and he wants to know more about the details of how a town department works. He sometimes gets feedback from town employees by phone call or mail, and this provides some input and status, but Council members do not know everything that is going on. He said hearing from town employees is important, and he does not know if employees know the Council is accessible to them.
It was explained by Mr. Milone that if an employee has a grievance they go to the bargaining unit.
On safety issues such as the parking lot not being sanded, Mr. Milone said an employee would call to follow up on such an issue.
There is an executive committee which meets a few times a year and Mr. Zullo said at the last meeting 6 minor to immediate issues were referred to this committee. There is an internal system of committees with information meetings providing people with a vehicle to discuss issues.
Mr. Milone explained that a town employee from the PW Department presented a suggestion on revamping the town leaf pickup program, and it was used by the town for this work, saving money and crew time. There have been suggestions made and utilized regarding snow removal.
This information is being relayed to the Personnel Committee, but Mr. Sima said the entire Council is not aware of this information.
According to Mr. Zullo this is not information to go to the Council, and what is done professionally is done on a day to day, month to month, year to year basis without thinking that there is cause to report to someone. Some of the information goes into the Town Manager’s Report to the Council each month.
Mr. Milone confirmed that he has reported to the Council on the changes in the way things are being done. What goes on daily is a natural part of doing a job. If there is a good idea, people are encouraged to bring it forward.
Ms. DeCaprio commented on the good staff of town employees, who are well aware of problems which can be brought to a department head, and there is a recourse for them to speak to Council members, if necessary. From what she has heard, there are no problems to be brought forward for resolution by the Council. The legal concerns raised in Attorney Dugas’ e-mail on the suggestion of a liaison committee are of concern to Ms. DeCaprio, who said she is not willing to take on these risks at this time. As for a pilot type program, she questioned whether this would be legal and binding on the Council.
As a new Council member, Ms. DeCaprio stated she was amazed at how much comes before the Town Council, and what is being done in town. If employee concerns are huge, they can come to the Council.
As for the day to day operations of the town, Ms. DeCaprio said Council members do not have the time to listen to normal concerns, and every idea brought to department heads is not implemented. These things are not within the purview of the Council, and it is not worth the risk to have this liaison committee.
Stating he does not see this as a day to day vetting committee to hear about daily things, Mr. Ruocco said it would be a situation where employees have exhausted all outlets for recourse and come to the Council. He does not know of any situation where an employee was frustrated beyond despair, and interaction with employees has been minimal.
In his experience, Mr. Zullo said that if there is a situation happening, an employee would come to him or the Town Manager.
Mr. Altieri said he has always felt that things are done on a daily basis, and if something is wrong, there is a process to go through in order to change things. He served on a committee to change curriculum in his school district, and they lost on the BOE level. It seems to him that Mr. Sima wants to know what is going on at ground level, and Council members will never know this, and it is the job of the administration to know what is going on…not the Council. The job of the Council is to set procedures and staff oversees employees and insures they do a good job. When there is dissatisfaction with employee performance, the administration explains what needs to be worked on, offers ideas to help, and Council does not need to know what is going on at ground level.
According to Mr. Sima he was not implying the Council needs to know what is going on day to day. He commented on there being perceptions in Cheshire about what the Public Works Department does, i.e. constructing sidewalks, leaf collections, etc., and that there is inefficient operations.
There are many things which come out of dialogue with people, and Mr. Sima said the liaison committee is a way to deliver better services to the people, and this is his goal.
Mr. Ruocco said that some of these things could be discussed during the budget process.
The perception of people cannot be changed, and Mr. Milone stated that Cheshire’s budget document is the most transparent of any community in the State, and information in this document comes from employees in the town departments. This document measures the performance of the Town. There is always the perception about the way the town does business, and everyone cannot be convinced that things are done the best way. But, if there are alternatives, Mr. Milone said he listens.
Regarding the comments in Attorney Dugas’ memo, Mr. Sima said it does state that the committee would not be binding to the town as a matter of law, but Mr. Dugas could see a claim being filed by an employee. This is not opening up the Council to litigation from a subcommittee. Mr. Dugas said there may be a grievance filed by having this subcommittee.
Mr. Zullo stated that he read the memo to say that if the liaison committee agreed to get something done for an employee, and it did not happen, someone could say the town reneged, and a grievance would be filed.
Mr. Altieri said it could constitute bargaining history, and that is what Mr. Dugas was trying to say.
In reading the memo, Ms. DeCaprio agreed that it could constitute bargaining history. Also, as a matter of law, Mr. Dugas says he could see a union filing a labor board charge.
MOTION By Mr. Altieri; seconded by Ms. DeCaprio.
MOVED that the Personnel Committee recommend that the Town Manager be allowed to continue to monitor and supervise employee communication input, and is opposed to the suggestion of forming a Liaison Committee of the Town Council.
Discussion
This committee is a good idea and Mr. Ruocco said that what is heard from management is not the same as what is heard from employees. He would like some interaction with Council and employees, with a formal process in place. He is not opposed to this committee, without infringing on the authority of the Town Manager.
Mr. Sima asked about the motion stating that the idea of a Liaison Committee is not being moved forward at this time.
Ms. DeCaprio commented on her concerns with such a committee and what the Council would be getting into, and she is not willing to take that risk.
VOTE The motion passed with 2 in favor (Altieri, DeCaprio)
And 1 opposed (Ruocco).
Your thoughts on the formation of a liaison committee? I wonder how town staff feel about the formation of a liaison committee.
Tim White
Town Council, 4th District
would strongly agree with Jimmy and Tom.
